Old Floors - Water Base Sealer Is Down - Grain Raise

JPlous

Hey all,

I'm not used to working with water base sealers at all.

A friend bought an old house and sanded the floors beautifully (with my help heh).

However, when he went to seal them he used a water base sealer which I have never used. He called me and I went over there and there is grain raise after 2 coats.

My question is how do I get rid of the grain raise for him? Two rooms are nice slash cut Oak, and the bedrooms are Fur.

Trying to get this done ASAP. The second coat was applied around 11pm last night - so about 11 hours ago from the time of this post.

gideond

Sand it again. A good waterborne should be acrylic and should not have much issue with raising the grain. Back when the first came out this was common, but the newer product I've seen haven't had issues with this for quite some time.

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JPlous

Sand it and remove the sealer completely or just to help lower the grain a bit and continue on? It may be finisher instead of sealer - I havent seen the containers he bought.

floorinstall

check with the manufacture for advise. I have had this happen before on soft woods. Try buffing using a maroon 3-M pad only. When you do the raised grain should sand off into a fine white powder. That is what I have done in the past and never had a problem applying the top coats.

JPlous

We were going to use something like a dry wall sander stick and run it across the floor and see if that works well?

My friend doesnt want to spend anymore money so I'm getting creative on how to sand the grain raise without an orbital or something of that nature...


Any more advice?


Thanks!

jamestrd

Grain raise is normal.

The floors need another coating.

Buff it out with fine 180 grit paper(gold strips on a buffer) and clean.

Apply third coating..
repeat process and apply fourth..
Floors will then be smooth.

Many things to consider.. is it actually a sealer? or are you just calling it that?
if it was a finish applied directly to wood, will cause excessive grain raise and is one of the reasons that sealers are made for the finish.

If you didnt buff between the first 2 coats, it will be more drastic.

a good process is
apply first coat sealer, buff, clean and tack. Apply next sealer and first topcoat strait( no buff)

then buff, clean and coat fourth coating.

If only doing three coats, buff every coating, before applying last.

OCRS

....and make sure you have adequate ventilation. W/b based products need airflow/circulation to minimize grain pop.

jamestrd

Good poiont Steve..

use a fan when after applying finish to "force dry"..it cuts the open time of the finish immensely as well as expedites the coating process.

it is recommneded by the top acrylic finish companies such as Basic coatings and Bona.

JPlous

Without seeing the bottles he used so far, if he was using finisher instead of sealer do we need to start this all over and sand it all off?

Doing a bit of reading showed he should have started with an alcohol based shellac which would have really kept the grain raise away.

jamestrd

You dont need to start all over.

However,
depenidng upon the finishes, some are too strong for direct application and supposed to be used with a sealer.

Problem that can arise form direct application of finish to floor is panelization.

the tensil strength of the finish does not allow for proper expansion and contraction of the wood and can cause "side bonding"

this is when sections of the floor move instead of individual board movement, and will result with excessive sized gaps in floor forming a distinct pattern, say every 18"- 24" most typical.

This doesnt mean this will happen, but it can..

Shellac is a great universal sealer for all finishes.. we use it all the time...wax free shellac.

JPlous

I think were going to try the light sanding down to the nice white powder...

Again were not going to be using a machine for this but rather I think were going to use some long poles for doing dry wall with and run them up and down until we have a nice smooth feel.

I'm in Colorado so we have a very dry climate plus we have been leaving windows open and heat on - fun utility bill coming for my friend haha!

I just want this to be done so I can go back to focusing on building his bathroom in the basement like I signed on to do!!

Ill report back with what type of product he was using, I do know he was using 2 different brands. One was in a blue metal gallon container from Home Depot, and the other is in a plastic gallon bottle also from Home Depot...

OCRS

'nough said, except for maybe....get a buffer!

JPlous

I'm at the house now, dried floors feel quite a bit better than they did after 3 hours.

The stuff he used for the first coat was Varathane floor finish clear satin. for the second coat he used pro finisher water base poly clear satin - this is what he'll be using for remaining coats.

Thoughts?

jamestrd

my thoughts are he may as well have spit on the floor.. a good loogie will protect better than those finishes..

joking aside,

he should do 3 more coatings..those finishes are thin and dont have enough body..if its light traffic,they will do their job,but he will be recoating within 2-3 years...

OCRS

quality control, is, I think, off duty on this job

JPlous

Yea I'm just making it decent enough of a house so it can be rented until its either fully renovated or scraped to build something else - its an investment project more than anything right now.

I took charge of the project and took your suggestions. I ended up using 220 grit paper on a pole. Worked really well and made the floor really nice and smooth again.

I put the 3rd coat on with the pro finisher junk. Hes got a ton of the stuff so I'm just going to keep doing coats and sanding between until it has a nice feel to it again...

What a pain!! If he would have just listened to me and used oil based sealer this wouldnt have been a problem!!! Slowing me down on getting this bathroom built in the basement heh

Thanks