No Glue Sheet Floor

We Fix Houses

I watched the video. Interesting.

Check out the no glue installation instructions on the Armstrong site. Use their brand 2 sided tape on the perimeter and caulk. That seems to answer my question.

http://www.armstrong.com/resflram/na...icle18128.html

ClassicCarpets

Armstrong has statamax ... pvc back, normally looselays flat at once, maybe

Bellsfloors

I'm "old school" inlaid vinyl and cushionvinyl installer. Many years of installing inlaids and sheet vinyl including interflex and perimeter glued vinyls. As many of these residential types don't exist anymore (except for felt backed sheet vinyl) the loose lay type is becoming more popular. I have installed a couple and my veiws are not positive towards the loose lay type. Here is a list of my pros and cons with the stuff.

Pros:

1. Very flexible and less likely to tear during installation.
2. DIY freindly.
3. No glue required.
4. Inexpensive
5. Can install over many floors without underlayment.

Cons: (mostly towards the professionals)

1. Requires unsightly expansion gaps around perimeter including tubs and door trims.
2. If glueing down with Pressure Sensitive adhesive, open time extends the work day by hours ussually without compensation for the additional waiting time.
3. Pressure Sensitive requires precise laying down of material(doesn't allow minute adjustment for seams or placement).
4. Only 1 seam permitted for looselay install.
5. Will buckle from heavy furniture, fixtures and appliances.
6. If buckling occurs, repeated callbacks to remedy the problems.

To me the Cons outweigh the Pros and I pretty much refuse to install the stuff anymore. Sad considering I am a very accomplished installer that really takes pride in the craftsmanship arts. When no brainer cr*p comes out that don't require much skill I pretty much focus on other crafts that do.

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Tracy

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gideond

We sell plenty of fiber floor type products, but always full spread them. I prefer IVC just because you can roll the glue down and it tacks within 20 minutes. Most other brands still want to insist on troweling it down, which takes forever for the glue to tack.

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MetalFramer

tarkett has it too,glue free vinyl,but i will always recommend to glue or tape the seams and x-cross the floor with tape on areas where heavy stuff is moving oftenly like dining tables and chairs,sofas,you know heavy stuff.

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orson

I'm not a fan of loose lays and perimeter gluing, even if the product is specced for it.

I do some apartment rehabs and the sheet vynil is Armstrong and is specced by Armstrong for full glue, perimeter or loose lay.

The last time they tried to loose lay it I ended up calling them back to glue it because it wouldn't lay flat.

As the kitchen installer and often the first person moving heavy objects over the vynil I must say I can't stand loose lays and perimeter glue jobs.

Especially when the job is specced for full glue down so I start sliding a cabinet on it and it bunches and rips.

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rusty baker

You are not supposed to slide anything on any vinyl, not even full-spread.

orson

There is what you're supposed to do and then there is reality.

My point is that there is never an issue with full spread, to me that makes it a far superior install.

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Mike Costello

I install vinyl about 4 times a week and have been doing so for 25 yrs.

I perimeter glue about 70 percent of the time and I have not had one callback because of it.

There are proper techniques to assure the floor lies flat

We Fix Houses

What are the proper techniques ?

Seems like it has been conveniently left out so far. How about giving it a try ?

Mike Costello

I can only give advice from my experience. It doesn't mean its a manufacturer's recommended install, but a lack of callbacks makes me comfortable with it.

I always skim coat my sub floor unless I am putting in new underlayment, which is rare with the Fiber Floor( brand I commonly install). Prep is just as important with this floor as with any felt back vinyl put down with a full spread adhesive.

I try to work to get a good "cling" between vinyl and sub floor so a smooth surface is important.

Generally I try to remove base or undercut it with my Super Saw (Crain undercut saw) or use 1/4 round. I do this on all vinyl jobs because I feel the edges should be under something wherever possible.

Weather I am scribing or freehand cutting I always leave an expansion space between the vinyl and all edges of walls or cabinets or whatever else your cutting into. I work all my edges under door casings and baseboards first After this I spend time getting that cling by using a soft bristled push broom and working the floor from the center to the edges to get it flat.A short 2x4 with carpet wrapped around it will do the same as you can get on your knees and push air out and flatten the floor.

The important thing to remember is to make sure the floor is free to lay flat by not being cut too heavily anywhere.

From there you can either perimeter glue or put your base or 1/4 round down, do your door metals being sure not to nail through the floor or pinch a bubble in it.

On a large loose lay I will use a low tack double stick pressure sensitive tape to keep the floor from creeping around and causing bubbles.

You'll have to hire me to know more details like where to put the tape

orson

Mike,

I have never worked over that company's product, and I have no doubt there are loose lay products that can be installed and perform well.

The impression I got from reading through the thread is that more than 1 person referred to products that I know from experience are specced by the manufacturer to be laid in any of the 3 methods, however, in reality should only be installed full spread.

It is up to the expertise of the installer to determine the best installation if it is not specced on the project.

Too many installers try to get away with not doing a full spread installation when it is specced by the GC or is simply the best method despite what the manufacturer says is acceptable.

I'm not insinuating anyone here does this, just seems to come up regularly in my experience.

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Kitchen & Bath Remodeling PA- Bathroom Remodeling Lancaster PA
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Mike Costello

There are many reasons and conditions that dictate the type of install needed. A perimeter glue or loose lay is certainly not appropriate for all situations. But it can be done more often than you think. As with anything it needs to be done properly for the results to be favorable.

I have never had an issue of any telegraphing through a perimeter glued floor.

Anyone who has spent countless hours scraping up old vinyl can appreciate someone doing a perimeter glue.

To me , it breaks the cycle of piling up vinyl over vinyl and sub floor over sub floor.

It can also save a customer money on a new sub floor if conditions are suitable.

I'm sure some hacks do it because they are lazy or just don't care as long as they get paid. But there are plenty of circumstances where it is a viable installation method.

Also I'm not a big fan of a GC or an architect for that matter ,specking the best way for a floor to be installed. Isn't that the reason why you hire a professional floor guy?

rusty baker

Most GCs that I have dealt with over the last 35 years, don't know which side of the vinyl goes up. I see them installing laminate without moisture testing, putting ceramic on OSB, etc. One here locally installed carpet and vinyl on a 2-week-old slab and had no clue why it didn't stick.

texasconcrete

full spread is the only way to go

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Mike Costello

Well , your in the concrete buisness so you should know better than a 25 yr installer