New Construction Woa

Brushslingers

Well most, as I say, here... there are no basements, everything is a flat crete floor. They get the carpenters to run the base flat on the crete all the way through and then the carpet and tile is laid in, after paint... then shoemold. No it's not the best way but it is the way it's done mostly here. 99% of the new homes in this area, tile goes in before cabinets as well. Little backwards to me but it's basically plumbed, rocked and hardcoat, set doors, run trim, paint, tile, cabinets, carpet, finish. I wouldn't do it that way but it's the production in this area.

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Benn

J DoubleD FLoor

<just threatens to call imigration if they don't do it right

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Quality is not expensive ... It's PRICELESS !!!
www.neoflooringco.com

Donedat

I lay my hardwood wall to wall and then cabinets and then I sand and first coat and then I leave. I come back to final coat after everything else is done. I'm the last one out right before the home is cleaned and presented to the new home owner.

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I admit...I don't know everything...but don't tell my kids I told you.

Mike Finley

I'm with you.

What difference does it make what you think as a tile installer when base, paint, cabinets or anything else goes in. Unless you are the GC or the owner of the house, you are working as a sub to the GC and they call the batting order as long as they are signing your check. You can discuss it with the GC, but if he wants it that way and you get a wild hair and start tearing out finished work you should be ready to either install it all again at your cost or get ready to have the GC back charge you.

MattCoops

I dont care if the finish carpenters have to come in and shoe mould behind me. I'm just fitting and moaning about doing things the way i'd like. I think it makes much more sense to install floor covering THEN base trim. Then you don't need a shoe. In my opinion shoe is tacky anyhow. If you're throwing down carpet, who cares, install base trim then carpet. Again, in my opinion, carpet sucks, and the only place I ever installed it is in the back of my van.

And the GC is not god. Most GCs are not dictators. All they are to me is a scheduler, and overseer. Consultants are ones with knowledge.

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Matt with Cupan Custom Tile & Paint of Lowell, Massachusetts
Design and installation of ceramic tile and natural stone for floor, wall, and countertops
(978) 601-8774 | cupantile@gmail.com | view tile pictures and more

joasis

Nope..we aren't God, and we are generally stupid, overbearing, don't kow our asses from a hole in the wall, couldn't frame a dog house without a full crew to show us how, and hire consultants since they are God and all seeing and knowing...consultants save us from ourselves...yep..you figured it out Matt...now where do I find a consultant since I can't do anything without one (lack of experience and intelligence here).....maybe the consultant has the checkbook and hires the subs...heck, we don't even need GC's....we could hire and overseer much cheaper..especially since they don't have to know anything except how to crack the whip and drive the subs.

I wonder Matt, if after say, another 10 years experience, you would make a statement like the one above?

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MattCoops

probably
I could never stand over someones shoulders and complain about this and that.
There are people who talk about the work and there's people who do the work.

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Matt with Cupan Custom Tile & Paint of Lowell, Massachusetts
Design and installation of ceramic tile and natural stone for floor, wall, and countertops
(978) 601-8774 | cupantile@gmail.com | view tile pictures and more

MattCoops

probably
I could never stand over someones shoulders and complain about this and that.
There are people who talk about the work and there's people who do the work.

Just tell me what needs to get done, pay me, and get outta my way.

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Matt with Cupan Custom Tile & Paint of Lowell, Massachusetts
Design and installation of ceramic tile and natural stone for floor, wall, and countertops
(978) 601-8774 | cupantile@gmail.com | view tile pictures and more

joasis

Enough said.....we got to be GC's by having no experience...just a checkbook. All I can get from your posting is you have had some bad experiences or you are still learning how to deal with people. I would not hire a sub with an attitude, and FYI, except for the mechanicals, we can do it all in house...I sub because I don't have enough people and it makes economic sense to do so...not because we can't do they work.

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MattCoops

90% of jobs we do ourselves
GCs call us for new construction and hire the white guys over the mexicans

you're right, I much rather work with a homeowner vice a GC. Everyone has their way of doing things and when you have to style flex you get sore about it.

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Matt with Cupan Custom Tile & Paint of Lowell, Massachusetts
Design and installation of ceramic tile and natural stone for floor, wall, and countertops
(978) 601-8774 | cupantile@gmail.com | view tile pictures and more

Double-A

Come on, fess up. We know the real reason you went into the flooring business. Its that deep dark secret that no one knows about.

Its the reason you like to be the last one in the house before its turned over to the new owner. All alone. No one around... not the GC, subs, wife, kids...

Its so you can be the first to yell, "Poweeerr Sliiiiiiiiide!!!"

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"My clients’ wishes are the center of my attention." -- David Guido, a contractor in Woodstock, N.Y.
New York Times, July 20, 2006

J DoubleD FLoor

LMFAO - AAAAAHhh the true reason we all became flooring installers. Cause it's just Risky Business.

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Quality is not expensive ... It's PRICELESS !!!
www.neoflooringco.com

TexasTimbers

Can't figure it out on your own Matt? Need someone to tell you what to do? That's one of the jobs of GC.

Consultants are generally people who have enough book knowledge to sound intelligent but failed at attempting to becoming a GC because they could not handle the pressure, stress, and juggling act it entails. The lowly GC gets no credit at the end of the day but without them, the entire process would be chaos.
The fact that you would rather have a homeowner as a GC versus a dedicated professional with beaucoup experience says all that needs to be said about you.

Mike Finley

It's really simple, I see almost everybody who puts down GCs can simply be described as All Hat, No Cattle. They prove this over and over again.

TonyD

In other words "The elves can stand around and make toys, but it really doesn't mean anything unless Santa is there to make a list, crack the whip, grap the reigns, and deliver the goods!"

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"...You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong..."
Abraham Lincoln

joasis

My point is this: As the GC, the customer relies on my judgement to make the job happen, that is why I was contracted to do the job. If the customer wants to hire his own sub contractors to do the work, that's ok also...works either way for me, since not only am I a GC, I have my own crews and we do it all. The attention getter for me is a post where someone assumes they are always correct, and others are always wrong....in this case, installing base trim. Looks to me like we split the opinions right down the middle, but someone pretty new to the trade should keep in mind, that for every trick they know, some of us know a few more, and wherever you go, there will be more tricks to know...thei is experience.

Anyone who wants to can become a GENERAL CONTRACTOR...just step up to the plate, and take a swing. If you have the experience, credentials, license if required, massive insurance we carry, multi tasking personality, ability to handle problems at all levels, and sweat blood when checks don't come in as fast as the crews and subs get paid, just jump on in...the water is great....

In the incredible wind for the last 2 days in Oklahoma, I had 5 calls today for damage to buildings, 2 roofs with shingles blown off and they want metal roofs, my main customer called 4 times with qusetions about a remodel and several suppliers called with issues, the plumber needed a meeting on the remodel, the HVAC bid came in higher then the customer wanted, so I call 3 more contractors for bids, the electrial contractor didn't get to another job site and the customer called me to call him....on and on...and while this was going on, I am out with a crew since I lost my lead guy last week...working along with the guys. This is what I go through several times a week. There are days like today I would much rather be an elf, then Santa Clause.

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ruskent

I feel it is easier to tile before trim. Much easier to grout. However, i never heard of a tile guy complaining or ripping out finished trim work since it was done first. A good tile guy should have no trouble with tiling after trim!!

Matt

JJC

A Friendly Hello to everyone!
I've read the previous posts, all 37 of them. I must admit, some have made me laugh, while others created steam emitting from my ears and other places. I'm sure someone here will disagree with me, and that's OK. So with that said, we'll agree to disagree and keep it friendly. I only state facts from the accepted standards of the tile industry. TCNA 2006- movement joint design essentials #EJ171-05 Expansion Joints are Required "where tile abuts restraining surfaces such as perimeter walls, curbs, columns, etc, etc." It also states for interior areas 20' to 25' in each direction. Where interior tile will be exposed to direct sunlight or moisture- 8' to 12' in each direction. If the GC doesn't know the standrads , the tile contractor has the obligation to bring it to the GC's attention. If the GC doesn't wish to conform and allow for thermal expansion and contraction, then the subcontractor needs to put it in writing stating the facts and why, have all parties sign off and it becomes the GC's little gift, all wrapped and just waiting to pop its ugly head with complaints from the end user. My concern in reading these posts, is that the majority will do nothing and discount me as a nut case fresh out of the "home". I hope people of the forum will be more open minded to the industry standards. Things are done differently all across the country, but the common factor tying us all together is the industry standards. Sorry to be long winded, but getting tired of seeing failures.
Jim

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Jim
Regional Director NTCA
"You can't afford not to do it right"

Zatol

So... In a shower floor, where is your expansion joint?

Where your tiled floor meets the tiled face of a tub where is your expansion joint?

And.. How wide is the expansion joint?

JJC

Zatol,
1/ Expansion joints are on the perimeter. If a cove base is not used the floor tile goes under the wall tile, creating a soft joint. If a cove base is used, the soft joint is at the toe of the cove base. These are the areas where the tile changes direction. Another option is to use a preformed profile that looks like a grout joint, and acts to relieve cracking.
2/ Again expansion joints are on the perimeter. In this case the tub face. If you put grout in there it will crack from movement of the tub. So, if it is not a straight tub, use a colored calk made by the grout manufacturer. They are made to closely match the grout color, and are available in sanded and nonsanded to resemble the grout. Check the data sheets, as not all products can be used in a wet enviroment.
3/ Expansion joints at the perimeter are typically 1/4". Interior for quarry and pavers- same as grout joint, but not less than 1/4". Ceramic mosaic and glazed wall tile- preferred not less than 1/4", but never less than 1/8". All this info is from the TCNA 2006 handbook, which references ANSI and ASTM.
Hope this helps, Jim

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Jim
Regional Director NTCA
"You can't afford not to do it right"