New carpet air pockets - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

Mr. Wms · 01-11-2007, 05:26 PM

I just had 84 yards of carpet installed in a basement by my flooring sub.
There are big air pockets in the middle of the carpet. He said turn up the heat and keep all the doors closed and they should settle down.
IS THIS TRUE?

Bud Cline · 01-11-2007, 08:41 PM

Did he use a power stretcher as he should or did he use only a knee-kicker and hack it in? Was the carpet acclimated to the surroundings before installation or was it carried in from outside and installed lickety split?

Or is it 'direct glue-down'?

Mr. Wms · 01-11-2007, 10:04 PM

He brought the carpet right in and now that I think about it I did
not see a stretcher but I was only in and out. It has a pad up under
it not glued down. Does carpet have to acclimate to the room temp?

Bud Cline · 01-11-2007, 11:29 PM

ALL flooring products MUST BE ACCLIMATED prior to installation.

The industry would very much like rug guys to follow the recommendations of the (CRI) I think it is the Carpet and Rug Institute, one of these rug rats around here can varify that I'm sure. Acclimation is required, power stretching would also be required in this case.

Unfortunately in this indsutry way too many guys are flying by the seat of their pants all the time.

At any rate. get that jack-leg back there to correct the problem for you.

Mr. Wms · 01-12-2007, 12:12 AM

Thanks Bud for the reply. He's definitely coming back tomorrow!
I never knew carpet had to be acclimated I thought it was just
laminate flooring.

Bud Cline · 01-12-2007, 06:45 PM

I have no idea what type of carpet you have but the majority of todays carpets backs are very stiff to begin with. It ain't like the old days anymore, If they are not acclimated they will not stretch.

**Teetorbilt** · 01-12-2007, 08:25 PM

Sounds like a very bad install to me. I have never seen or heard of anything like this.

J&J Home Imp. · 01-12-2007, 08:35 PM

Not seeing a sretcher would have been my first red flag. Down here there are a lot of guys that don't know what a stretcher is. Sounds to me like they didn't let it acclimate and kicked it in. they might as well have just unrolled it and tucked it in. now that its been in the room it should take a good stretch. I usually try to get about 1" of stretch per 12' minimum. There is no way you can do that with a kicker without going to the hospital.

TOBIASD2 · 01-28-2007, 05:45 PM

I Agree With Bud Cline All Flooring Materials Must Be Acclimated At Least 48 Hours Prior. If It Is A Stretch Job It Has To Be Power Stretched Unless It Is A Closet. Make Sure He Does Not Get Away, There Is To Much Of This In The Industry.

Taurus Flooring · 01-28-2007, 07:14 PM

I have been installing carpets for over 30 years and have never had a restretch. Yes I agree that a carpet must be aclamatized before stretching it in, but I do not agree that it needs to be power stretched. As a matter of fact, most problems I'm seeing these days, is from over stretching. Todays materials are all plastics and as we all know, plastics will distort if overstretched. It boils down to the manner it is stretched. I fasten one end and kick down the middle to the furthest end, followed by the sides, starting at the beginning. The best way to figure it out, is by stretching a kleenex without tearing it. An experienced installer can [u]feel[u] the way it is stretching. I do a snap test. I pick the carpet up by the tuft in the middle of the floor and it should snap back easily.

Glasshousebltr · 01-28-2007, 07:16 PM

Hey Tobias, lay low on the caps please .....it makes me feel like I'm reading on a galloping horse.

Bob

turner flooring · 02-04-2007, 03:35 PM

genius is spelled like this. joking around guys..

strongfloors · 02-19-2007, 09:07 PM

Stretching is essential to the success of an installation. I usually power-stretch, however this is not always necessary. I agree w/ J&J and Taurus. Personally, I use a very large kicker for smaller rooms and put my 240 lbs. behind it. I've never had to restretch an installation of mine and I've been installing carpet since 1990.

--Jason Davis
www.strongfloors.com

**Floorwizard** · 02-22-2007, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Personally, I use a very large kicker for smaller rooms and put my 240 lbs. behind it.

You have a 240 lb leg!

I would recommend a power stretcher for large areas, and I do not acclimate, nor have I ever.
Although up in Fairbanks they have to acclimate because it's actually frozen.

Properly stretched carpet will not bubble or wrinkle.

Angus · 07-12-2007, 04:58 PM

Always, always, always use a power stretcher. No power stretch = no manufacture warranty. If a carpet installer shows up at my store, I check his tools. No power stretcher = get lost. Knee kickers are for small closets and steps. That's all. Also, if it is 80 degrees in my warehouse where the carpet has been stored, why should I leave it in the customer air conditioned home for 24 to 48 hour. Acclimation is not always needed. Wood, yes. Carpet and vinyl, no.

Angus · 07-13-2007, 10:15 AM

[quote=Angus;262470]Always, always, always use a power stretcher. No power stretch = no manufacture warranty. If a carpet installer shows up at my store, I check his tools. No power stretcher = get lost. Knee kickers are for small closets and steps. That's all. Also, if it is 80 degrees in my warehouse where the carpet has been stored, why should I leave it in the customer air conditioned home for 24 to 48 hour. Acclimation is not always needed. Wood, yes. Carpet and vinyl, no. Winter time is the exception.

Demal · 07-23-2007, 11:12 PM

Acclimation is a must, but in every day use, it doesnt exist. Power stretching is a must. And less work. Easier. The hardest thing about power stretching is carry'n the damn poles in. Or spike it! If you spike it, be prepared to eat it. There isnt a manufacturer out there that will warranty a rug with spike marks in it.

The only time I actually let a carpet acclimate is if it is winter and the carpet is frozen. By the time I lay out my entire job, have seems burned, the carpet has warmed up to room temperature. In the winter time, I bring all my cut pieces in shut the doors, and turn up the heat. Im a skinny guy, so I am always cold.

Someone said over stretch? There is no way that is possible. When was the last time you got 1 to 1 1/2% stretch in both length and width?

If you want the correct guidelines that a professional flooring installer should follow, go here:

carpet-rug.co m (I would give you the URL, but this is only my 2nd post

)

As for your floor, I believe he did not use a power stretcher. Most guys dont for some reason. Dont ask me why, it is much harder not to in my opinion. Maybe they cant afford one? Or they are young and think they can boot just as well? In any matter, these bubbles are easily fixed. There are not any old guys that I know that dont power stretch though. My dad wouldnt ever think of hitting his knee! Your bubbles were done by the guys helper!

There was one time that I could not get the wrinkles out though. That was a manufacturers defect and was replaced, but in all the years I been doing this, this only happened to me once. So I doubt thats the case.

Good luck with your bubbles!

Mike Costello · 07-24-2007, 06:10 AM

No that is not true. Even if the carpet was glued directly to the floor there should not be "air pockets". Bubbles do not belong on a newly installed floor of any type. (ok some of us may remember interflex).

If it was stretched over pad it should be tight everywhere -where as when you grab it it wants to snap back down like an elastic. Regardless of weather it was powerstretched or not.

(professional disclaimer) All stretched carpets should be power stretched

Demonseed · 07-24-2007, 07:07 PM

On direct glue down installations you will get some small bubbles, but nothing major, for the most part once the glue starts to cure they will stay down. On tack and pad installs I agree, you should power stretch everything, and we all know why guys avoid power stretching in basements, they are afraid the sticks will pop out of the floor. I have seen guys go through more headaches, and call backs trying to avoid doing a job right, than it is worth to just do the job right in the first place.

The bubble in the basement I bet 100% was where the installer bent the carpet it to get it in the house, and didn't have time to let the carpet get to room temperature, at that point, you tack, pad, do your seams (if possible), call the retailer or shop, figure something out but you know you are going to be called back. So be a professional do not continue with the install and tell everyone the carpet will have to be installed another day.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Costello

No that is not true. Even if the carpet was glued directly to the floor there should not be "air pockets". Bubbles do not belong on a newly installed floor of any type. (ok some of us may remember interflex).

If it was stretched over pad it should be tight everywhere -where as when you grab it it wants to snap back down like an elastic. Regardless of weather it was powerstretched or not.

(professional disclaimer) All stretched carpets should be power stretched

Mike Costello · 07-24-2007, 08:10 PM

Well actually if you do a glue down the way the CRI wants you to , you wont get any bubbles. If you let the glue tack long enough and roll the bajeezus out of it they will be gone by the time you scrap up.

Just about every glue down repair Ive done has been cuz the dude dropped it into the glue too fast and rolled the glue all over the place , displacing adhesive and leavin bald spots underneath. Was either that or a dusty floor somebody tried to glue over.