Need To Level 8' X 8' Floor With 1 1/2" Variance

highpeaks · 03-23-2009, 06:37 PM

I'm renovated a HO space for a new bathroom. Existing sub floor looks like 3/4 slot sub floor with another 3/4 T&G on top. The floor drops about an 1 1/2 from one end to another. What is the best way to level and provide a strong surface for tile. I had cut down 1/2 and 1/4 8 foot shims. I was going to try running shims over the joists and then run new 3/4 TG perpedicaular. Then hardibacker , then tile. Will the 3/4 over shims give me any problem with tile.? What about using DITRA?

macatawacab · 03-23-2009, 10:31 PM

why not a layer of patching cement used like self leveling concrete? mark your levels around the perimeter, pour to the line, and float it out with a bull.

then your Ditra would take out the small imperfections.

AboveAndBeyond · 03-24-2009, 01:03 AM

i second the self-leveling concrete! tough when the floor pitches toward the door however. i've never had the need to use ditra with it either. though, be sure there aren't any holes for the stuff to escape through (toilet flange?) i larned that the hard way once, ha.

Bill_Vincent · 03-24-2009, 01:25 AM

I'm also on board for something like that, even before I read the other replies. If it were me, though, I'd be using a type S mortar, instead, though, and I'd be using thinset as a bond coat, and float from your deepest point to nothing at the high point.

highpeaks · 03-25-2009, 12:48 PM

I thought about a self-leveling pour, but I was concerned with the feathering at the thinest point. I still need to lay tile on top. Do you thin the Ditra will work fine at the thin-areas where there's only ply?

kevjob · 03-25-2009, 01:17 PM

If I have acces to joist we will sister a joist of similiar or close to that size next to it and use the new joist to make everything level. if not use self leveler and make sure you use the primer.

plazaman · 03-25-2009, 04:55 PM

many ways.. all depends on the budget and type of job. low, highend, mid range..

we've done everything from self levelers, plywood & 2x4 where you slice down the 2x4, sistering to a level, mud bed and float out entire floors, level out with thinset when laying tile (small areas) to house jacking

Rob79 · 03-25-2009, 06:05 PM

It is more money than self leveling cement, but the best way to do it is to tear everything down to the joist and start from there. You always get a better job to start fresh than to keep adding to the floor. Just remember to run full length 2x material(not just shims), or sister in different joists. Make sure you use 3/4" t&g ply along with ditra.

72chevy4x4 · 03-25-2009, 11:46 PM

you already have 1.5" of subflooring and want another 3/4" plus 1/4" cement board plus tile...that's an awful lot of weight! leveling compound from 1.5" to 0" should do the trick then thinset and hardi (or your choice).

kevjob · 03-26-2009, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 72chevy4x4

leveling compound from 1.5" to 0" should do the trick then thinset and hardi (or your choice).

how do you attach the hardi over the slc?

Bill_Vincent · 03-26-2009, 09:45 AM

neolitic · 03-26-2009, 10:10 AM

If the floor got that way
because it was under-framed,
will it even handle tile?
My first question would be,
"How'd it get this bad?"

Floordude · 03-26-2009, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neolitic

If the floor got that way
because it was under-framed,
will it even handle tile?
My first question would be,
"How'd it get this bad?"

Exactly what I was thinking. The structure is going to be crying when all that weight is added.

Bill_Vincent · 03-26-2009, 04:57 PM

That's why I posted the stupid look last post. I MUST be slipping! Sometimes you just can't see the forest because the trees are gettin in the way!

neolitic · 03-26-2009, 05:24 PM

By my count, two floor guys
had already gone over this mess,
and she had a guy ready to tile it.

Bill_Vincent · 03-26-2009, 07:00 PM

Piece o cake.

kevjob · 03-26-2009, 07:16 PM

looks like all my bathrooms I do and when people see after the demo I get alot of these

looks.

highpeaks · 03-28-2009, 07:58 AM

The floor got that way by bad framing. We are sistering up all the 2x10's, In addtion, we already poured a 10' footing in the basement for a bearing wall to support the joists mid-span. THis will help reduce the load. I was think about removing the sub floor in he 8x8 area that will have floor tile. I would rip down to the joists and then level the floor using the new sisters joists. My only concern was weakening any adjacent areas that still rest on the old subfloor and joist system. The old joist span is about 15'. Otherwise with the new support system I thought that an SLC would be just fine with the added wait.
Any recommendations for an SLC the I can pour the deep in one shot?

highpeaks · 04-02-2009, 05:59 PM

So here's my delema. I want to use Level Quik SLC. It's not recommended over T&G plywood. They want it to be exterior grade. So they recommended that I put down 1/4 wonderboard over the ply bonded with thinset and screws. Then primer and then pour slc. My other option is to pull up one layer of the t&g . Replace with 3/4 CDX. Primeer, then lathe, then pour.

Obviously each one is labor intesive. Not sure which is best method. Or ar ethey about even. Thoughts?

neolitic · 04-02-2009, 07:06 PM

Most of the T&G plywood I've seen
is exterior grade.

03-23-2009, 06:37 PM	#1
highpeaks View Profile highpeaks Member Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (30) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Member Trade: Renovations Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 30	Need To Level 8' X 8' Floor With 1 1/2" Variance I'm renovated a HO space for a new bathroom. Existing sub floor looks like 3/4 slot sub floor with another 3/4 T&G on top. The floor drops about an 1 1/2 from one end to another. What is the best way to level and provide a strong surface for tile. I had cut down 1/2 and 1/4 8 foot shims. I was going to try running shims over the joists and then run new 3/4 TG perpedicaular. Then hardibacker , then tile. Will the 3/4 over shims give me any problem with tile.? What about using DITRA?

03-23-2009, 10:31 PM	#2
macatawacab View Profile macatawacab Dave from Macatawa Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (277) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Dave from Macatawa Trade: GC, cabinet maker and remodeler Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 277	Re: Need To Level 8' X 8' Floor With 1 1/2" Variance why not a layer of patching cement used like self leveling concrete? mark your levels around the perimeter, pour to the line, and float it out with a bull. then your Ditra would take out the small imperfections.

03-24-2009, 01:03 AM	#3
AboveAndBeyond View Profile AboveAndBeyond P.R. Rescue Guy Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (78) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity P.R. Rescue Guy Trade: Remodeling Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: CT Posts: 78	Re: Need To Level 8' X 8' Floor With 1 1/2" Variance i second the self-leveling concrete! tough when the floor pitches toward the door however. i've never had the need to use ditra with it either. though, be sure there aren't any holes for the stuff to escape through (toilet flange?) i larned that the hard way once, ha. __________________ Above & Beyond Remodeling LLC - http://www.aboveandbeyondct.com

03-24-2009, 01:25 AM	#4
Bill_Vincent View Profile Bill_Vincent tile contractor Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (894) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity tile contractor Trade: Ceramic and stone tile contractor Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Bridgton, Maine Posts: 894	Re: Need To Level 8' X 8' Floor With 1 1/2" Variance I'm also on board for something like that, even before I read the other replies. If it were me, though, I'd be using a type S mortar, instead, though, and I'd be using thinset as a bond coat, and float from your deepest point to nothing at the high point. __________________ "Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're probably right." http://www.creativeceramicandmarble.com

03-25-2009, 12:48 PM	#5
highpeaks View Profile highpeaks Member Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (30) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Member Trade: Renovations Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 30	Re: Need To Level 8' X 8' Floor With 1 1/2" Variance I thought about a self-leveling pour, but I was concerned with the feathering at the thinest point. I still need to lay tile on top. Do you thin the Ditra will work fine at the thin-areas where there's only ply?

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03-25-2009, 01:17 PM	#6
kevjob View Profile kevjob Remodeling GC Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (2,033) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Remodeling GC Trade: Remodeling General Contractor Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Denver Colorado Posts: 2,033	Re: Need To Level 8' X 8' Floor With 1 1/2" Variance If I have acces to joist we will sister a joist of similiar or close to that size next to it and use the new joist to make everything level. if not use self leveler and make sure you use the primer. __________________ Kevin Basement Finishing Highlands Ranch Colorado Littleton Colorado, Basement Remodeling Kitchen Remodeling Denver

03-25-2009, 04:55 PM	#7
plazaman View Profile plazaman Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (1,821) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: Remodeling Contractor Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: NYC Posts: 1,821	Re: Need To Level 8' X 8' Floor With 1 1/2" Variance many ways.. all depends on the budget and type of job. low, highend, mid range.. we've done everything from self levelers, plywood & 2x4 where you slice down the 2x4, sistering to a level, mud bed and float out entire floors, level out with thinset when laying tile (small areas) to house jacking __________________ Westchester Remodeling Contractor Hartsdale Remodeling Contractor Ardsley Remodeling Contractor

03-25-2009, 06:05 PM	#8
Rob79 View Profile Rob79 New Guy Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (20) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity New Guy Trade: Building & Remodeling. Kitchens & Bath. Tile Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 20	Re: Need To Level 8' X 8' Floor With 1 1/2" Variance It is more money than self leveling cement, but the best way to do it is to tear everything down to the joist and start from there. You always get a better job to start fresh than to keep adding to the floor. Just remember to run full length 2x material(not just shims), or sister in different joists. Make sure you use 3/4" t&g ply along with ditra.

03-25-2009, 11:46 PM	#9
72chevy4x4 View Profile 72chevy4x4 Contractor Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (2,434) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Contractor Trade: Remodeling & Home Additions Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Delaware Posts: 2,434	Re: Need To Level 8' X 8' Floor With 1 1/2" Variance you already have 1.5" of subflooring and want another 3/4" plus 1/4" cement board plus tile...that's an awful lot of weight! leveling compound from 1.5" to 0" should do the trick then thinset and hardi (or your choice).

03-26-2009, 09:45 AM	#11
Bill_Vincent View Profile Bill_Vincent tile contractor Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (894) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity tile contractor Trade: Ceramic and stone tile contractor Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Bridgton, Maine Posts: 894	Re: Need To Level 8' X 8' Floor With 1 1/2" Variance __________________ "Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're probably right." http://www.creativeceramicandmarble.com

03-26-2009, 10:10 AM	#12
neolitic View Profile neolitic Curmudgeon Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (11,707) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Curmudgeon Trade: carpentry/remodeling/"Yes M'am we do" Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Beech Grove, Indiana, Birthplace of the "King of Cool" Posts: 11,707	Re: Need To Level 8' X 8' Floor With 1 1/2" Variance If the floor got that way because it was under-framed, will it even handle tile? My first question would be, "How'd it get this bad?" __________________ Put your location in your profile! (Sorry....it seems there really are dumb questions)

03-26-2009, 04:57 PM	#14
Bill_Vincent View Profile Bill_Vincent tile contractor Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (894) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity tile contractor Trade: Ceramic and stone tile contractor Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Bridgton, Maine Posts: 894	Re: Need To Level 8' X 8' Floor With 1 1/2" Variance That's why I posted the stupid look last post. I MUST be slipping! Sometimes you just can't see the forest because the trees are gettin in the way! __________________ "Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're probably right." http://www.creativeceramicandmarble.com

03-26-2009, 05:24 PM	#15
neolitic View Profile neolitic Curmudgeon Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (11,707) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Curmudgeon Trade: carpentry/remodeling/"Yes M'am we do" Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Beech Grove, Indiana, Birthplace of the "King of Cool" Posts: 11,707	Re: Need To Level 8' X 8' Floor With 1 1/2" Variance By my count, two floor guys had already gone over this mess, and she had a guy ready to tile it. __________________ Put your location in your profile! (Sorry....it seems there really are dumb questions)

03-26-2009, 07:00 PM	#16
Bill_Vincent View Profile Bill_Vincent tile contractor Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (894) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity tile contractor Trade: Ceramic and stone tile contractor Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Bridgton, Maine Posts: 894	Re: Need To Level 8' X 8' Floor With 1 1/2" Variance Piece o cake. __________________ "Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're probably right." http://www.creativeceramicandmarble.com

03-26-2009, 07:16 PM	#17
kevjob View Profile kevjob Remodeling GC Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (2,033) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Remodeling GC Trade: Remodeling General Contractor Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Denver Colorado Posts: 2,033	Re: Need To Level 8' X 8' Floor With 1 1/2" Variance looks like all my bathrooms I do and when people see after the demo I get alot of these looks. __________________ Kevin Basement Finishing Highlands Ranch Colorado Littleton Colorado, Basement Remodeling Kitchen Remodeling Denver

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03-28-2009, 07:58 AM	#18
highpeaks View Profile highpeaks Member Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (30) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Member Trade: Renovations Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 30	Re: Need To Level 8' X 8' Floor With 1 1/2" Variance The floor got that way by bad framing. We are sistering up all the 2x10's, In addtion, we already poured a 10' footing in the basement for a bearing wall to support the joists mid-span. THis will help reduce the load. I was think about removing the sub floor in he 8x8 area that will have floor tile. I would rip down to the joists and then level the floor using the new sisters joists. My only concern was weakening any adjacent areas that still rest on the old subfloor and joist system. The old joist span is about 15'. Otherwise with the new support system I thought that an SLC would be just fine with the added wait. Any recommendations for an SLC the I can pour the deep in one shot?

04-02-2009, 05:59 PM	#19
highpeaks View Profile highpeaks Member Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (30) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Member Trade: Renovations Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 30	Re: Need To Level 8' X 8' Floor With 1 1/2" Variance So here's my delema. I want to use Level Quik SLC. It's not recommended over T&G plywood. They want it to be exterior grade. So they recommended that I put down 1/4 wonderboard over the ply bonded with thinset and screws. Then primer and then pour slc. My other option is to pull up one layer of the t&g . Replace with 3/4 CDX. Primeer, then lathe, then pour. Obviously each one is labor intesive. Not sure which is best method. Or ar ethey about even. Thoughts?

04-02-2009, 07:06 PM	#20
neolitic View Profile neolitic Curmudgeon Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (11,707) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Curmudgeon Trade: carpentry/remodeling/"Yes M'am we do" Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Beech Grove, Indiana, Birthplace of the "King of Cool" Posts: 11,707	Re: Need To Level 8' X 8' Floor With 1 1/2" Variance Most of the T&G plywood I've seen is exterior grade. __________________ Put your location in your profile! (Sorry....it seems there really are dumb questions)