Hickory Stair Treads

neolitic

Either a bending jig or form, or bend it in place.
In place would make for one tricky cut though.
Maybe Leo, or Tom R, or one of the other guys
have more insight.
A thread titled steaming hickory or some such
might get some attention, and I'm sure there
is stuff on Google.

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ChrWright

Steaming is a lot to take on by yourself if you've never done it before. You can build your own jig, use a wallpaper steamer, etc. etc. but in the end I think that's a lot more work than building it in ply and I doubt you could get solid wood to turn that tight a radius without warping.

Do some searches: steam bending, cold lamination, vacuum bending, vacuum veneer, bending plywood, etc. This will stimulate your thinking for this project and for the future.

An alternative--and the way most factory built-radius starting treads are made--is make to your own kerfs on the back side of 3/4" veneer ply and then bend it in place. Saw to within 1/8" of the finished surface and leave around 1/8" of meat between the kerfs. The best tool for this is a radial arm saw. Run the straight section long and cut it to length as you test fit.

Wet the finished surface of the ply a little with a warm sponge to prevent the veneer from splitting. Sometimes it takes a few tries to get it to bend without a split along one of your kerfs.

Norm Abram (New Yankee Workshop) has done about every iteration of radius finish carpentry you can think of on his shows. If you can find them on DVD, it would make a great addition to your library.

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dokuhaku

Roger that.
Would it be ridiculous to not have the skirt? Perhaps that is the plan.

dokuhaku

This was the technique I was going to attempt-- kerfed pine ply w/ hickory veneer. I suppose hickory plywood is an option, thus saving a step. Though, at this point, I would not likely 'save time', given my lack of experience with such curved risers.

dokuhaku

Nice tip! I am using that one for sure.
I know Rockler woodworking store has many video How-Tos. I will look for Norm's radius work there. Thanks.

ChrWright

Yes, if you're going to do it this way, just buy 3/4" Hickory veneer ply.

If you're going to veneer it yourself, then use bending ply or kerf core.

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ChrWright

http://www.newyankee.com/index.php

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StairMaster

I always put the riser in before the tread myself. Reduces your chances for gaps and then you don't need cove.

Cool bottom tread. Looks like a fun project.

WarnerConstInc.

I think Neo was talking about bending one solid board for the treads. Not for the risers.

neolitic

Nope, talking about the risers.
We did one with 3/8" oak,
but it was more like a 16-18" radius
and we got to make the step
framing fit the finish rather than
the other way round.

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dokuhaku

I will start at the bottom, installing the first riser, then the first tread, second riser, second tread, and so on. Is this how you would progress, StairMaster?

Regarding the cove, I hadn't intended to use it simply because I was going to make every effort to fit the treads tightly to the risers, just as you suggested. However, ChrWright opined that the absence of cove could be seen as 'cutting corners'. That thought sat with me all day.
When I returned home this evening, I thumbed thru several issues of Architectural Digest. Sure enough, amidst all the photos depicting the finest in craftsmanship, the stairs always have the cove (or similar).
I hope more members put in their 2-cents on this matter. I'll wait and see before starting a new thread.

dokuhaku

Neolitic, I know you were referring to the riser when making the comment, but humor me a moment.
After installing the risers, if I decided to use a cove molding under the treads, the radius at the end of the big bottom tread would certainly require steaming. I found the following design idea for a very lo-tech steam box in an issue of Wood (#175, March 2007, pgs. 56-57).



You can see a few seconds of the same box by watching the beginning of this video.

Since you have some experience with steaming wood, perhaps you can tell me what you think of such an undertaking. I may not use the cove, but, alack, if I wish to...

ChrWright

I've been assuming all along that the risers & skirts will be hickory as well, as opposed to painted? Obviously from a woodworking perspective this is the highest level of finish. However, you might consider the alternative for cost and time. We often have to work within our clients' budgets and suggest alternatives which give them the biggest bang for their buck--while making our work look the best/most finished in the process.

It's still a very nice look to have natural wood treads, with painted risers, skirts, coves, shoes, etc. and creates a very nice contrast. However, it's hard to tell the look of the rest of the house to know whether or not this jibes with the overall design aesthetic.

Curving and custom making the whole she-bang is expensive (or should be--I hope you're not giving your time away.) If you go painted on everything besides the treads, you can use flexible composite trims. These come in a variety of sizes and profiles.

Food for thought.

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neolitic

Looks good. You might search Fine Woodworking
as well.
Obviously you will need a bigger box, and
something bigger than a tea kettle.
I have modified a square gallon can,
and even a 5 gallon kerosene can,
and use my propane camp stove for
heat.
The biggest "box" I've made was out
of a length of 16"Ø PVC pipe.

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neolitic

Chris has a really good thought there.

As to the risers?
I usually do the bottom riser, then
the second riser, then the first tread,
then the third riser, then the
second tread......

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dokuhaku

Thats right. Hickory risers. And my mind is starved for nutrition! Will work for Food for thought! Thank you immensely.

I saw one like this... green one I think.

Each one of these will have the riser set down on tope of the tread preceding it (working bottom to top).

StairMaster

Because your stairs here are curved that is the best way to go about it, yes. And you would need cove since the staircase is round.

I was actually just thinking about standard skirt to skirt stair installation when I made that comment, sorry. None of the contractors or homeowners I've ever done stair work for wanted cove. They don't like how it looks.

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dokuhaku

One setback I have had is that the 6 pie-shaped ('wedge'? What should I call them?) look like crap. I made them directly from paper patterns I had created on site. I may as well have drawn the radius from memory. I was stunned and ashamed at how wavy my cuts were. I will be making wood templates today and check them on-site. I lose a couple days and waste a bit of material, but I learned an important lesson. Specifically, wood templates: good.
I plan to purchase a stair wizard if I can hunt one down in town here. The six box stairs will go in last and I think this is a great job for which to finally make that overdue purchase. Thoughts?

PrecisionFloors

I couldn't imagine doing stairs with out mine. It just takes all of the work out of it, well worth the money.

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jamestrd

you 'll be living in La La land if you think you will get 15-20 k for that job.