Hardwood Flooring - First Go at It - Page 2 - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

Donedat · 01-16-2006, 01:56 PM

Adam,

Yes I do use lambs wool on big jobs (16" and 18" ones). I'm by myself so I have to do all the cutting in and field work alone. So, 98% of my jobs I brush on. If it's a water job I usually use a 9" paint applicator. Really big water jobs I use a T-bar.

Floorstyle has T-Bar applicators that are tapered. Have you seen those?

adams,b · 01-16-2006, 09:04 PM

I think so. We use a tube like apllicator. Its like 16 or 18 inches long. Blue foam in the middle with white on the outside. I have not tried the new roller system they have on the market yet. Its suppose to be awesome. I'm sorry, but I would never brush a whole floor.

King of Crown · 01-17-2006, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donedat

Here is a link from the National Oak Flooring Association.
http://www.nofma.org/Portals/0/Publi...re%2009_03.pdf

The whaaaaaaaaat?!

Donedat · 01-17-2006, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King of Crown

The whaaaaaaaaat?!

What didn't it work for you?

King of Crown · 01-18-2006, 11:45 PM

National Oak Flooring Association?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

you could have just said NOFA and we would have known exactly who you were talking about.
just kidding, I just cant beleive someone took the time to organize one.

kneel_eh! · 01-22-2006, 12:04 PM

Well, I'm 'old school' when it comes to 'sand&finish'. It does take more time but well worht it in the long term.
1/4" spacing around the walls is all you need for 3/4''. Screw a stip of 1/4" plywood to the starter wall(long wall) in place of baseboard.Butt tight to this. First 5 rows, hand nail the tounge with ardex finishing nails 6" apart.From this point you can use your 'air assist'.Staple 8-10". Keep back 3" from the end of the board to avoid splitting.Joints should be 10-12" apart. It's not necessary to staple the butt ends.Finish off the last few rows same as starting. By hand. If you think THIS is a lot of work, try doing 2000' this way!
Now...your floor is ready for stain. Remember that 'stain is moisture'. You will raise the grain somewhat.Before you apply your first coat of finish,slowly pull a silk scarf across the floor. Do you hear/feel any 'snags'?(or get your Mrs. to scoot around on her backside. Any splinters!lol) Either method will tell if you are 'ready for finish coats.You may require a lite 'hand sand'.A light staining may be desired at this point.To do this ply and wipe immediately as you go. Then when dry, tack it.
I prefer urethane as a finish. SIX coats with a 4" brush of good quality.Go over the floor with 0000 steel wool between each coat, wipe with clean water, dry and tack.You won't be disappointed with the results and your 'hockey points' (read brownie points!) just went 'off the scale'!

adams,b · 01-23-2006, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kneel_eh!

Well, I'm 'old school' when it comes to 'sand&finish'. It does take more time but well worht it in the long term.
1/4" spacing around the walls is all you need for 3/4''. Screw a stip of 1/4" plywood to the starter wall(long wall) in place of baseboard.Butt tight to this. First 5 rows, hand nail the tounge with ardex finishing nails 6" apart.From this point you can use your 'air assist'.Staple 8-10". Keep back 3" from the end of the board to avoid splitting.Joints should be 10-12" apart. It's not necessary to staple the butt ends.Finish off the last few rows same as starting. By hand. If you think THIS is a lot of work, try doing 2000' this way!
Now...your floor is ready for stain. Remember that 'stain is moisture'. You will raise the grain somewhat.Before you apply your first coat of finish,slowly pull a silk scarf across the floor. Do you hear/feel any 'snags'?(or get your Mrs. to scoot around on her backside. Any splinters!lol) Either method will tell if you are 'ready for finish coats.You may require a lite 'hand sand'.A light staining may be desired at this point.To do this ply and wipe immediately as you go. Then when dry, tack it.
I prefer urethane as a finish. SIX coats with a 4" brush of good quality.Go over the floor with 0000 steel wool between each coat, wipe with clean water, dry and tack.You won't be disappointed with the results and your 'hockey points' (read brownie points!) just went 'off the scale'!

Do you sand your floors? I would never ever ever put six coats of finish on a floor much less with a 4" brush. Ever heard of a lambswool applicator?

kneel_eh! · 01-24-2006, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adams,b

Do you sand your floors? I would never ever ever put six coats of finish on a floor much less with a 4" brush. Ever heard of a lambswool applicator?

SAND THE FLOOR! The thought has never crossed my mind...! I guess I should look into that on the next job!

Let me use an analogy here, assuming you were more interested in quality, over quantity. If you were to paint a car, using either 2 coats with a lambswool applicator or 6 coats with a good brush...
Yes, I use lambswool for sports floors.For residential, NEVER!

drunkrussian · 01-24-2006, 08:48 PM

Ok, your post did read as if you stain before sanding. But I agree about the quality over quanity, but holy crap, i've never heard or 6 coats. The old school guys around here just talk (complain) about when they had a huge brush, and were on there hands and knees.

Anyways to each there own. I take pride in my work, but in reality I don't have a week to put all the coats of poly on a floor. So I cut in my corners and do small spaces with a brush, everywhere else lambswool. If you have good technique it looks goods, no pile ups, and no voids. For me its quality, and efficiency.

Oh and the analogy doesn't make sense to me. Who the hell paints a car w/ lambswool, or a good brush. Last time I checked they use an air brush, a mighty efficient machine. And I've seen good jobs and bad jobs with the air brush, I guess it depends on the painters attitude towards a good job, and there technique.

kneel_eh! · 01-24-2006, 10:27 PM

The analogy makes perfect sense. I asked' if you were to paint a car using ONE or THE OTHER which would give you a better finish!
As far as using airbrushes etc. I have several and have done some very nice work on vehicles with them. But if you were to talk to some of the 'old timers' in autobody about using WET & dry between coats then you would learn more about quality in this regard also.( this is not to insinuate that you or anyone else doesn't know anything about quality)
Six coats is my standard and it is priced to give me the time necessary to do the job this way.Oh yah! You bet I charge for it. In fact if you know of anyone who has a higher rate, let me know. Cuz my price is going up! In every indusrty, one guy has the highest rate, Around these parts, that's me!

drunkrussian · 01-24-2006, 11:14 PM

Your my hero, I wish i could find people who give me more time, and care that much.

Around here we get the people w/ $1,000,000+ homes that want the perfect floor in a week. Or I should say we have the builders who couldn't schedual to save their life, and the house was suppose to close 3 months ago, so now the floor is top priority, but there still are 20 other crews running around

adams,b · 01-25-2006, 02:37 AM

You can bid as high as you want but cant wonder why your sitting at home not working.

kneel_eh! · 01-25-2006, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adams,b

You can bid as high as you want but cant wonder why your sitting at home not working.

I wish! I don't know what the work situation is in your areas but here in Alberta, we cannot find enough trades people of any kind. We have ads world wide for installers. We are at present interviewing a few from the U.K.
That has never had a bearing on my pricing tho. My work is worth the prices I charge and anyone,and there have been a few,who doesn't want to pay my rate is welcome to shop around. And I have had a couple who have called me back to 'see if I can fix' there floor after they went for the lower price. They got told to 'double the original price' or I won't even look at it.
Consultation with a written report starts at $250.00.( 1 page) Board replacement is $75.00 PER BOARD. Ceramic/marble floor tile is same price. Service charge -2 hrs-$180.00. These prices are for labor only.
It takes a lot of time,dedication,education and money to become fully certified and 'outfitted'.A lot of our expenses are daily whether we work or not, and I don't work 24/7 for anyone. I value my time off as much as any customer does and for many years the flooring trade has been grossly underpaid! My normal work week is 31/2-4 days max. And never includes week-ends.
What does your local mechanic-dentist-chiropractor-lawyer-accountant-banker etc.charge? What makes his knowledge/skill worth more than yours?

The bitter taste of a poor job,
Lasts much longer
Than the sweetness of a low price!

adams,b · 01-25-2006, 09:04 PM

I here you talking. A good while back there was a guy that we gave a bid to and he didn't give us the job because it was more than he made. He kinda figured it up in his head on the total price and the time we told him it would take and he said that we should not make more money than him so we didn't get the job. I think he was a lawyer or something...Some kind of educated idiot. Thats the only time that has ever happened. We had a contractor a couple months ago that told me that we could have got another dollar a ft. because we were the only guys that didn't brush the finish on. Everyone else told him that they brush the finish on and he did not like that at all. First I thought he may have misunderstood them but after reading what you wrote it may have been true.

Donedat · 01-28-2006, 08:00 PM

Sorry Adam, the brush I use is a standard finishing brush. Never really measured it but I think it is 16" long and China Bristle. It works really well, especially for residential jobs that have a lot of small spaces.

Actually you can see me in action...that's me in my Avitar.

DecksEtc · 01-30-2006, 11:02 PM

Okay, I know I started this thread awhile ago but I may actually get around to starting the flooring this week! After all, it' not my fault I got a paying job doing a custom cedar fence or that my GF decided she wanted ceramic in the kitchen (which I had to do first). So, my question is this: because I won't be able to use my new floor stapler (see TBA post) for the first 4-5 rows, what is the best method for me to nail down those first rows? Hand nail (what nails?) & counter sink them? 16G air finish nailer? 18G air finish nailer? Something else?

As always, thanks in advance.

drunkrussian · 01-31-2006, 07:47 PM

On the first few rows where my stapler will not fit I use the finish nailer, and get on top of the tounge, angle it in, and shoot. You can also face nail it, set the nails and fill.

DecksEtc · 01-31-2006, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drunkrussian

On the first few rows where my stapler will not fit I use the finish nailer, and get on top of the tounge, angle it in, and shoot. You can also face nail it, set the nails and fill.

Thanks drunk. I just wasn't sure if a finish nailer would be enough for the hardwood. And, I really wasn't keen on the concept of hand nailing. I HATE hand nailing

. Also, I don't like the idea of face nailing - too much work to fill, etc. - and I don't like the look of the filled holes.

Should I use my 16G or 18G finish nailer?

drunkrussian · 01-31-2006, 08:23 PM

I use my 15g angled nailer, so your 16g should be perfect.

DecksEtc · 01-31-2006, 09:56 PM

Thanks again. Now all I have to do is find the time to get started!