Hardwood Flooring - First Go at It - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

DecksEtc · 01-09-2006, 10:50 PM

Okay, just got my honey-do list re-prioritized... Installing hardwood flooring has just sky-rocketed to the top!

We went out today and searched over 10 different stores for hardwood flooring - OH WHAT FUN!!!

Anyway, after debating over engineered vs. pre-finished vs. unfinished and doing all the comparisons we came home with 330 sq. ft. of unfinished hardwood in the back of my truck. We got a pretty good deal from a local flooring supplier. The flooring we got was 2 1/4" wide by 3/4" thick and came in varied lengths. We got it for $3.50 a sq.ft. (taxes included).

As for the installation, I'm leaning towards using staples as I can get them from my regular supplier for a good price and the conventional wisdom here is that there isn't a huge difference as far as quality goes - only personal preferences. I'm working on convincing my GF that buying the stapler is better than renting - wish me luck!

I did want to ask a couple of questions since it is my first time installing hardwood.

1. How far apart should the staples be placed in each piece?

2. Do I have to lay the hardwood perpendicular to the floor joists? (My floor joists are 2x8's, 12" O.C.)

3. I'm going to be staining the flooring separately from the polyurethane (part of the reason we got unfinished was so we could select the exact colour we wanted). What brand and how many coats of poly do you recommend? (remember I'm in Canada and can't get SW products)

There will probably be more questions once I get started but that's it for now, unless there are any other words of wisdom any of you have.

takanawa · 01-10-2006, 09:24 AM

I can't give you advise on other questions but can answer about sealing the floor, you should put down 3 to 4 coats of poly, people normally put 2 coats but it will scratch very soon.

G.P. · 01-10-2006, 12:33 PM

You could do a search for the bruce/armstrong flooring website, you should find specific answers there.

Personally, I leave a gap of 1/2" all around and nail or staple (have used both and don't have a preference) about every 10-12". This has worked fine for me on the 4 installs I have done. I also clean the subfloor really good and underlay it with red rosin paper. If you have a sufficiently strong subfloor, I dont think it makes much of a diference how you go in relation to the joists. I go whatever way I think will look better, generally parallel to long walls in rectangular rooms.

You will need to readjust doors and undercut jambs. You also need to face/blind nail the 1st and last few courses by hand or with a finish gun, or I have seen it screwed and plugged. (the floor nailer wont fit in these areas). I found it pretty cheap to rent the stapler, with a competent helper you could probably finish a typical kitchen in a day.

**Floorwizard** · 01-10-2006, 01:01 PM

I don't think it is possible to use staples.
I thought 3/4 was nail only.

Peladu · 01-10-2006, 04:00 PM

When given the choice, go perpendicular to the floor joist.

When I have my flooring sub come in he knows that I, as for nailing, want it to be 6-8 inches apart and the butt joints have to be at least 6” apart from the boards that are side to side of it and absolutely no stair steeping the planks, other then that we get alone fine. Good Luck

DecksEtc · 01-10-2006, 07:33 PM

Thanks for the advice thus far. I don't have any doors or jambs to deal with as all entrances to the room are open doorways and I only have one set of stairs to deal with.

Tomorrow starts the demo of removing the carpeting and taking the existing baseboards off. I'm hoping to be able to reuse the baseboards since they aren't MDF and there's no 1/4 round in the room.

I've already determined the best direction for the flooring (L-shaped room) but can't remember the direction of the joists - hopefully they will be perpendicular. By the sounds of it, it isn't a major concern though. I will be re-screwing the %ell out of the subfloor because the squeaks left behind by my incompetent builder are annoying - don't even get me started on the kitchen floor!!!

Can anyone give me a ballpark figure on the number of fasteners I'll need? 5,000? 10,000? 20,000? (the room is 300 sq. ft.)

adams,b · 01-10-2006, 08:05 PM

you need to go opposite your plywood, staple every 6 to 8 inches. 1 coat of stain and 2 coats of finish. polyurethane is prone to scratching no matter how thick it is. We put 30# felt under all of our nail down floors. Let the wood acclimate as well. You need to do a moisture check on the wood in comparison with the relative humidity of the house. Should be the same, otherwise there will be movement in your floor after its all said and done and that won't make her too happy.

justin savage · 01-10-2006, 08:09 PM

what peladu said is correct 6-8" spacing of nails butt joint 6" and dont stair step the rows.finishes if your using oil modified urethane look for polo plaz or bona kemi .3-4 coats is fine , use a sealer coat first- both of these manufactures make sealers.these two brands can be rolled on also if your interested -its fairly easy to roll and get a really nice floor. justin
oops forgot you were staining -2-3 coats is plenty dont necesarrily need the sealer over the stain

drunkrussian · 01-10-2006, 08:18 PM

I staple every 4-5 inches, and always at the 2 ends of the board. Then I have a blast w/ the finish nailer on the pull-ups.

Words of advice, i'm too young for wisdom...

If you have never finished a floor before, do not finish this one unless you are willing to live with screw ups. Pay someone. Staining is not just another step, it takes a lot of extra sanding and prep. Depending on how dark your stain is, it will bring out every scratch on your floor. Thats really about it. Install is e-z part. Oh, and if you do finish yourself, don't use minwax anything.

DecksEtc · 01-10-2006, 08:53 PM

Thanks again guys. I have finished flooring before, just never installed from scratch so I'm not scared of that part. The flooring I got is pretty smooth, just no finish on it. We don't want it too dark so there will only be one coat of stain. After the 3rd coat of poly, I'll see how it looks and make up my mind about a 3rd coat.

All the pieces are random lengths so I should be able to get pretty good spacing on the joints. The flooring is acclimating to the house now and it's going to take most of tomorrow for me to prep the room so I won't be starting until Thursday or Friday.

drunkrussian · 01-11-2006, 01:49 PM

Your going to sand it, right? Also, it souldn't take more than one application of stain for the color you want, no matter how dark.

Try to get ahold of Bona Dri-Fast stain/sealer. And use their poly, good stuff. The nice part about their stain is that it is self activating. You could stain part of the floor one day, then go back and do the rest the next and it looks the same. Can't do that w/ Minwax or other box store "pro" stains.

justin savage · 01-11-2006, 04:47 PM

listen to what the drunkrussian is telling you. more than 1 coat of stain and your asking for trouble.justin

DecksEtc · 01-11-2006, 05:38 PM

Yes, I'm going to sand it - I realize I won't get all the seams perfect and will need to sand it so no need to worry.

As for staining, you won't need to tell me twice to only do one coat. I don't mind doing less work, as long it's the right way.

adams,b · 01-12-2006, 09:47 PM

we have been using Basic Coatings for years. Love it. You only need 2 coats of it, Most of the other finishes out there are too thin and leave bubbles, this stuff goes on nice and smooth and it flows together very well. We use Dura Seal stain as well.

DecksEtc · 01-12-2006, 11:04 PM

I'm not familiar with those brands but I'll be taking a look around when the time comes.

I may be starting a fence job next week so the floor will have to be done during the evenings or the weekend of the 21st-22nd.

Donedat · 01-14-2006, 02:41 PM

Most big box stores have flooring grade poly. It can be applied with a brush, rolled, and even applied with a foam applicator. As far as spacing the staples, the box usually gives instructions for that. Follow the instructions on the cans and the boxes that the material comes in. For your project, should be a piece of cake.

DecksEtc · 01-14-2006, 02:50 PM

I was wondering when you'd offer some advice Don

I've ordered the staples from my usual supplier (an industrial type store) and I have the sneaking suspicion there won't be any instructions, but I could be wrong. Their prices on all fasteners are WAY better then any big box store or local lumber place in my area. A box of 5000 2" staples is $44.99 CDN.

Also, I bought a King floor stapler from them for $279.99 CDN because I can't be bothered renting one and because I'm not sure if I'll be able to do it all in one go and because well, it was just an excuse to buy a tool I don't have
yet! I know King probably isn't the best brand but if I have any problems with it, they'll take it back, no questions asked.

Donedat · 01-14-2006, 02:56 PM

You got a good deal for the stapler. A bostich runs around $475 US the same goes for the PowerNail brand.

I'll go look real quick, but the nailing schedule for staples is about 8 to 10 inches appart.

Donedat · 01-14-2006, 03:10 PM

Well the Bostich box says nothing. Here is a link from the National Oak Flooring Association. It may help in the installation process. I usually leave no more than a 1/4" gap aroung the perimeter on residential applications.

http://www.nofma.org/Portals/0/Publi...re%2009_03.pdf

adams,b · 01-15-2006, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donedat

Most big box stores have flooring grade poly. It can be applied with a brush, rolled, and even applied with a foam applicator. As far as spacing the staples, the box usually gives instructions for that. Follow the instructions on the cans and the boxes that the material comes in. For your project, should be a piece of cake.

Do you actually brush a floor with finish? Ever used a lambswool applicator? They work great, we brush around the walls and do all the feild with a lambswool. I think its 16" long