Granite Tiles On Kitchen Counter

lornmastro

Hi all, Hope you don;t mind i'm visiting from the painting forum. I was planning on using granite tiles to redo my kitchen counters can't afford to use one solid granite counter top. My first question is will these tiles hold up to the abuse taken by kitchen counters or can I expect them to chip and crack?? I also got 2 estimates to do this. The first tile guy was planning on placing the the tiles on my current laminate counter top the second guy wanted to rip out the current counter top and replace with plywood then put the tiles on top. Which way is the right way to do this?? I really appreciate your advice since I seem to be getting different opinions depending on who I speak to.
Thanks Confused in Pa.

remodeling joe

neither contractor is correct....... you must rip old countertop off. then install 5/8 plywood, then on top install 1/4 durock. then install your granite tile. 1/4 trowel of thinset,(gray, not white) should be enough. granite is porous so expect to seal it (every so often) and it does scratch easily. it does look very nice but it isn't very durable as opposed to solid surface.

angus242

Actually, that's not even enough. Check this thread:
http://www.contractortalk.com/f73/granite-tile-formica-countertop-please-help-34149/
or this one:
http://www.contractortalk.com/f10/tiling-countertop-34317/

and I'm not sure what joe is talking about. Granite is MUCH harder and scratch resistant as opposed to solid surface. Corian or similar can be scratched if you look at it the wrong way. The difference is, solid surface can be sanded to remove small surface scratches or sections replaced if damaged whereas granite cannot.

remodeling joe

yeah..........i just read those threads and i'm sticking to mine.
i install 5/8 plywood then i mortar in the 1/4 durock then screw it to the 1plywood. this measurement gives you a perfect height so when you come in with the outer bullnose tiles overlapping the perimeter, you don't see any underlayment. i NEVER apply any tile on formica, plywood, or anything other than a waterproof underlayment.
no 2 people on earth work the exact same. this is my method that i've been using for a very long time. never had a call back and never had a tile job fail.

remodeling joe

as for granite being scratch resistant....... go buy one tile and see for yourself...i guarantee that if you move your pots side to side on it, you WILL see scratches.

angus242

Aluminum can't scratch granite. It might leave a trail like a pencil eraser across paper but that's not a scratch. The trail you're speaking of can be removed from a granite surface. And there's NO WAY that solid surface is in away way more durable than granite.
Your method may work for you but I would not recommend that process to any installation I do. You have to admit that using only 5/8" ply and 1/4" CBU is less than MANY different resources, either on this forum or listed on the internet, recommend. I'd be much more worried about flex than using that method because it makes an ideal nose height. I believe the industry minimum is 5/8" and 1/2". As long as you recognize and admit that, you can install less than recommended all you want.
So lornmastro, ask yourself....would you rather have less than recommended, the MINIMUM recommended or a bit more than recommended?

Bill_Vincent

Hang on there!! You're so off base with that it ain't even funny. Just to give you an idea of how scratch resistant granite is, years ago, I had a house down in Connecticut where I'd installed blue pearl for my front entry. When we first moved in, it was late fall, and the contractor hadn't poured the front walk yet, so we ended up with crushed stone for our walk for that first winter. I had 4 young kids, my dogs, and our guests trapsing in and out of that door, tracking in that crushed stone on their shoes, and come that next spring, that stone cleaned up and looked just like new. In addition, I have a piece of black galaxy that my wife uses as a cutting board. and although I have to sharpen our cutlery more often, there's not a cut mark or scratch on that stone. Granite's one of the hardest countertop materials around!!

Now, as for the single 5/8" layer of plywood and then 1/4" CBU, that's no where near enough. You want at the VERY LEAST, a layer of 3/4" ply, a SECOND layer of 1/2" ply, and THEN, either 1/4" CBU or a membrane if you're worried about thickness. Also, as for the edge, I hope you're putting a piece of CBU on the edges. Thinset won't stick to the edge of plywood AT ALL.

http://www.creativeceramicandmarble....ountertops.htm

http://creativeceramicandmarble.com/...&g2_itemId=698

Oh yeah-- one other thing-- not all granites need to be sealed! If you go to the following link, you'll see two links at the top of the page, one for A-L, and the other, M-Z. Between these two pages are listed every kind of granite in the world. For each granite, is listed the absorbsion rate. Anything with less than a .25% absorbsion rate does NOT need to be sealed, and if you go through the tables, you'll see there are quite a few of them:

http://www.findstone.com/daniel1.htm

__________________
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're probably right."

http://www.creativeceramicandmarble.com

Bill_Vincent

That would include the TCNA Handbook, which requires no less then 1 1/4" of plywood in two staggerred layers, before CBU or membrane.

__________________
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're probably right."

http://www.creativeceramicandmarble.com

lornmastro

Thanks to all for all your great info. I will be finding someone new to install the granite that will follow those specifications. Will be picking up a piece of granite to see if it is indeed scatch resistant and thanks so much for the pictures/info bill it was really helpful. Where could I find the trim for the edge of the counter that you spoke of?? Have looked in a few places and can't seem to find it.

Bill_Vincent

Which trim are you talking about? Especially on my backsplashes and countertops page, I mention several.

__________________
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're probably right."

http://www.creativeceramicandmarble.com

JonM

This is my kitchen and they are holding up fine after 5 yeras....

lornmastro

You kitchen looks great jon. Bill the trim that jon has in his picture for the edge of his counters.

JonM

The trim is off the shelf 1 x 3 oak rounded over with a router after it was installed.. Glued (PL200) screwed and pluged

The tiles were installed over 5/8" ply and 1/2" durock

Bill_Vincent

lornmastro-- just as Jon said, you can either use stock and hit it with a router (or not!), or you can also get wood countertop trim from most home improvement stores or lumber supplies, already made up, as well.

__________________
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're probably right."

http://www.creativeceramicandmarble.com