Glue Down Hardwood.

 
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Old 12-28-2007, 11:07 PM   #1
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Glue Down Hardwood.


I'm a Concractor in Panama City, FL, which means I have a good bit of time on my hands. This is kind of a diy question. I'm building a personal/spec home and since I'm not busy I'm doing a lot of the work for myself. I have a good bit of red oak t&g left over from another job. I've talked it over with my flooring guy and he says I can glue the hardwood straight to the concrete. I've havn't ever done that and would like some thoughts.

Thanks
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Old 12-28-2007, 11:10 PM   #2
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Re: Glue Down Hardwood.


I've seen it done but wouldn't do it myself.

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Old 12-28-2007, 11:27 PM   #3
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Re: Glue Down Hardwood.


I wouldn't either.

I heard the thin Bruce Natural reflections can be glued with bostics best adhesive, but I would still pass on that one.
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Old 12-29-2007, 09:32 AM   #4
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Re: Glue Down Hardwood.


No manufacturer will recommend nor warranty solid wood flooring...i.e. 3/4" Solid glue directly to a concrete floor. Your best bet is to lay a thick plastic down, install 3/4" t&g plywood sheathing with a powder actuated nail gun, then lay down 15lb roofing paper, then use 1 1/2" staples to install your solid wood floor. This will make the floor solid and pretty moisture retardant. Never glue solid. You can only glue an engineered product.
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Old 12-29-2007, 11:28 AM   #5
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Re: Glue Down Hardwood.


Did you know, NOFMA www.NOFMA.org has added new specifications, for direct glue of solid wood to concrete.

With all the failures I have seen, cupping and buckling, even years later, I personally walk away from the client demand it be done. Too risky for my back pocket.
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Last edited by Floordude; 12-31-2007 at 11:27 PM.
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Old 12-31-2007, 11:03 PM   #6
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Re: Glue Down Hardwood.


We have glued down many solids directly to concrete with many years of sucess. Many things need to be taken into consideration before doing this. This in not for the DIY installer and most pro's won't do it.

Quote:
No manufacturer will recommend nor warranty solid wood flooring...i.e. 3/4" Solid glue directly to a concrete floor.
Carlilsle Wide Plank Floors recommends it.

Last edited by Edger Boy; 12-31-2007 at 11:06 PM.
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Old 12-31-2007, 11:30 PM   #7
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Re: Glue Down Hardwood.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Edger Boy View Post
Carlilsle Wide Plank Floors recommends it.

I don't think they recommend their wide plank solid, over concrete, direct glue. There is a long lists of "if's" in their specs, if they do. Read the fine print!!
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Old 01-01-2008, 12:19 AM   #8
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Re: Glue Down Hardwood.


Quote:
Read the fine print!!
Method #1 : Gluing directly to concrete
1/2" to 3/4"

Using either Bostik"s Best or Sika adhesive product, spread one layer of adhesive onto the concrete per manufacturer's instructions and place your Carlisle planks, milled to 1/2" or 3/4" thickness directly onto the adhesive. Allow 12 hours drying time before finishing your floors.

We have been doing this for many years.
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Old 01-01-2008, 07:49 AM   #9
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Re: Glue Down Hardwood.


Goodhouse,

Square edge plywood is used on the slab, not tongue & groove. I have seen home owners do it but NOFMA wants 1/4" to 1/2" space between the panels and NWFA wants a 1/8" space between the panels.

The installation method you posted (other than the t & g)is our favorite.

Here is what NOFMA says:

PLYWOOD-ON-SLAB SYSTEM.

This system uses
34" or thicker sheathing grade exterior

plywood as the subfloor over the appropriate vapor retarder.

Loose lay 34" plywood panels over entire floor. Laying plywood

on a diagonal to the direction of the finished floor will

help prevent cracks associated with panel edges.
Stagger plywood and joints every 4' by cutting the first
sheet of every other run in half. Leave 34" space at all wall
lines and 14" to 12" between panels. Cut plywood to fit within
18" near and around door jambs and other obstructions

where finish trim will not be used.

Fasten the plywood with a powder-actuated concrete

nailer or hammer-driven concrete nails. To be sure to

flatten out the plywood, start at the center of the panel
and work toward the edges. Use at least nine nails per







panel or more to fasten securely.

Last edited by Edger Boy; 01-01-2008 at 08:04 AM.
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Old 01-01-2008, 12:17 PM   #10
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Re: Glue Down Hardwood.


If your going to direct glue to concrete, they require a moisture membrane. Bostik's Best and Sika T-55 are not moisture barriers, alone. It doesn't build enough mil thickness to be effective. Use the moisture midigation system the adhesive manufacture has, and follow the directions to the letter. An additional flat troweled application of urethane membrane coating maybe needed to fill voids in the trowel ridges, that did not slump.
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Old 01-01-2008, 01:17 PM   #11
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Re: Glue Down Hardwood.


Quote:
If your going to direct glue to concrete, they require a moisture membrane.
The first part of Method #1 does not include a moisture membrane. The secont part of Method #1 is written to include the membrane. They call it Bostik's Two Punch Combo.

Yes Floordude, We use MVP on all the 3/4 solid glue downs to concrete and on most other solids on concrete depending on the job conditions and wood species.

I try to sell my customers on engineered flooring for glue down to concrete installations but more and more of our customers are buying their own flooring and just want us to install it. For many years we would not do a job unless we supplied the flooring. Those days are gone.

Last edited by Edger Boy; 01-01-2008 at 01:20 PM.
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Old 01-02-2008, 03:46 PM   #12
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Re: Glue Down Hardwood.


IF.......you are going to do it ( which I do not recommend) use Bostic MVP then use Bostic BEST. Also I think Taylor adhesive will warranty sold produce installations also...
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Old 01-02-2008, 04:01 PM   #13
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Re: Glue Down Hardwood.


Quote:
IF.......you are going to do it ( which I do not recommend) use Bostic MVP then use Bostic BEST.
That's what we have been doing since MVP hit the market. Before MVP we would only glue Antique Heart Pine to a slab and only if the job site conditions were right.

Last edited by Edger Boy; 01-02-2008 at 04:05 PM.
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Old 01-02-2008, 05:18 PM   #14
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Re: Glue Down Hardwood.


Quote:
only if the job site conditions were right.
theres the other 1/2

IF the conditions are right.
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Old 01-02-2008, 07:48 PM   #15
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Re: Glue Down Hardwood.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RhinoFlooring View Post
IF.......you are going to do it ( which I do not recommend) use Bostic MVP then use Bostic BEST. Also I think Taylor adhesive will warranty sold produce installations also...


I really like the Mapei WFM and their 990 adhesive combo. Better on the budget, and easier to work with with smoother healing surface(WFM) and the 990 holds trowel ridges 100% better then BEST.

I use Taylor 2071 for engineered, exclusively, if I'm supplying the glue.
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Old 01-12-2008, 12:05 AM   #16
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Re: Glue Down Hardwood.


Hi guys, we have been installing floors for 23 years and there no way we will direct stick to a slab. The other advice you have been given is correct, that you use a moisture membrane and the trowell the Ultraset and it can be done with success if done correctly, however the problems usually come if there is a failure in the slab and a top layer comes away. Stick with Ply and the bostik glue and you sould have no problems


Cheers

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