billy0510

alright this is my first post on this site so bare with me. Im a concrete guy by trade and want to find out more about flooring for my house. I will be replacing the floors in my hallway, kitchen, and dining room. Im on a conrete slab floor and want to install wood flooring. i didnt want to glue nothing down but mty options r still open. It seems to me that real wood is almost a no, so i was wondering about engineered or laminate. Any help would be awsome thanks

In_Mexifornia

Some wood floors can be glued to the concrete, some can't. In some instances plywood is layed over the concrete and then the wood floor is attached to that. In some cases the concrete floor can be sealed and the wood floor can be glued down. I think most of those laminate floors have a vapor barrier layed down first, then a thin foam pad, then the floor just floats without being glued down or nailed down. Sometimes the laminate pieces are glued together and sometimes they just lock together. I would find a floor material you like and that you can afford. Then find out how that particular flooring should be attached. Personally I think the laminate floors are cheap and they sound cheap and hollow when you walk over them.

I'm in California. Here's a place that's near me, but it lists all their prices. Maybe this might help. http://amigosflooring.com

Floorwizard

www.kahrs.com

Here are examples of high quality floating wood floors.

__________________
------------------------
"in 20 years you will regret more what you did not do than what you did"

JoeBergess

One alternative is a good Engineered Hardwood that can be installed as a floating floor. Weyerhaeuser makes some, as well as WFI [World Flooring International]. They have a good selection, and I've installed plenty overtop concrete slabs. I agree with the above, in that most laminates do sound hollow, and cheap. Pergo has reworked their line recently and have some nice strip flooring products that look a lot more "real" in that they are embossed on register, but it still sounds the same, pretty much.

If you like the look of hardwood, my recommendation would be to put the thickest floating engineered hardwood down you can find. Its hardwood, instead of pressboard with a picture on top [laminate], and it can still be sanded and refinished 1 to 2 times later on down the road.

__________________
Joe

floor instal

You need to check the flatness of your slab before you install a glue down engineer floor. The biggest source of problems with gluedown hardwood floors is with the flatness of the slab. Most manufactures require that the floor be flat within3/16" over 10 feet. If you are a concrete guy you know that there are no slabs that meet that requirment. So you have to hand float the floor to tolorance (which is truly an art) or use a self leveling underlayment wich can get very pricey. If you use a glue down floor you can use a moisture cured urathane glue such as bostich best, it forms its own miosture barrier if applied per manufactures requirement but do not let any of it dry on the face of the wood or you will never get it off.

__________________
floorinstallation@cox.net

Teetorbilt

As said and then seal the surface with concrete sealer.

__________________
You can't solve you're problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems.

Albert Einstein

Same Old

As a former concrete guy I can assure you that those numbers are easy to hit for an experienced crew.
Unfortunately most slabs are poured by guys that don't care and as long as it looks flat and it's hard, it meets specs.

send_it_all

In my limited experience with engineered flooring (2 floors), is that it is very soft and scratches and dents ridiculously easily. On the first job, (Bamboo) the H/O dented the floor by walking on it in high heels and on the second job, (oak), I dented it by standing on a ladder over rosin paper and 2 layers of canvas tarps. The ladder has rubber pads on the feet. (that one cost me 2k). Has anyone found a better brand of engineered or had similar experiences?

floor instal

The ability of any hardwood floor to resist indetation is determined by the species of wood that the floor is made out of. In the case of engineered wood that only applies to the species that the top layer is made from. If you want a more resistant floor to indentation you have to use a hard specie. Oak is not that hard compared to maple or ash. Most manufactures can give you the hardness rating done on a comparitive scale or you can get them on the National Wood Floor web site. Actually Bamboo is a very hard surface but it will not withstand the abuse of high heel shoes, no hardwood floor will. It has been projected that a two ton car exerts only 28-30 pounds per square inch of pressure on its supporting surface, a full grown elephant 50-100 PSI, but a 125 pound woman in high heel shoes as much as 2000 PSI. Hardwood flooring manufactues, according to Walter H. Whitley, acting manager of NOFMA, do not accept damage to floors by such heels as incurring a warrenty obligation. As for protecting the floor while you work over it, you shoud place a piece of 1/2' plywood under you ladder to diplace the load over a larger area.

__________________
floorinstallation@cox.net

Floorwizard

I agree.
It has nothing to do with solid or engineered, but everything to do with type of wood.


good advice!

__________________
------------------------
"in 20 years you will regret more what you did not do than what you did"

bill r

deleted

lawndart

Bamboo is actually a very soft wood. One of the softest on the market. It is however one of the most stable. You should never glue down a 3/4" plain saw product over concrete. If your looking to install 3/4" solid it needs to be quarter sawn. Which IMO isn't that good over concrete either.

Stick with an engineered or laminate floor. Make sure you seal the floor first with Bosticks MVP in any case. Good Luck to you

JoeBergess

I agree with the above reply. The engineered wood that dented has nothing to do with the company (most times) and everything to do with the species of wood. Carbonized Bamboo has a rating of 1100 on the hardness scale, and Natural Bamboo has a rating of 1410. This is versus the industry standard of Red Oak which has a rating of 1290. So, it's pretty dang soft.


A common misconception is that bamboo is very strong, but really, it's just very flexible.

If your slab is in good condition & is level, I definitely recommend a floating 9/16" engineered.

WFI [World Flooring International] offers a VERY good product. You can check them out at wflooring.com




One of their main advantages is the fact that they use their aluminum oxide ceramic wear layer in the base coat, so when you go back to screen and recoat/refinish, you don't have to chemically treat it, which can save $1.50 to $2.00 per square foot.

Hope that helps!

__________________
Joe

gideond

We've installed a lot of Kahrs products on slabs for a builder that has no end of water issues in his fancy but cheaply built houses. Never had any issues with the Kahrs, despite water problems throughout the houses. Shaw is also coming out with a new floor called Epic. It is more of a true laminate core, with real hardwood on top. The new core they are using in this is much better with moisture resistance and can be installed below grade on concrete. Might be worth checking into. We haven't installed any of it yet. Still waiting on our new display.