flooring or cabinetry first - Page 2 - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

**Leo G** · 05-14-2009, 07:21 PM

There is no such thing as a flat true floor. Never has been and never will. Well, maybe in an experimental lab, but in a residence - ain't gonna happen. You need to deal with the flow and shim and/or scribe your cabinetry according to the cards you were dealt.

orson · 05-14-2009, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leo G

I always install the cabinets first. I use the universal anti-grav installation brackets and set them up for a 3/4" float. That way, when the flooring guy comes he can just slip the flooring right under the cabinets

Leo I started reading this and actually bought it for 5 seconds before I realized you were kidding. You got me!!

**Leo G** · 05-14-2009, 08:11 PM

I was hoping I would get a laugh or two outta that.

**ChrWright** · 05-14-2009, 08:24 PM

Floor first... and then scribe all your cabinets to the floor you lazy bastards...

(and I've seen a GREAT many 'new' houses with floors up and down and all over the place.)

Cache · 05-14-2009, 08:28 PM

Even if you have the anti-grav brackets (LOL) flooring first, then cabs. This is new construction we are talking about, so the floor should be level enough. I've never seen a new const. floor that is wavy enough to bother the cabs. Unless the cab guys completely forgot how to scribe the toe kick.

Even in an old rehab you'll want to do floor first and if the subfloor is really non-level, then try to rectify the situation before/during the flooring install. Even if the floor is really out of whack, the cab installers should level the cabs, which for me usually means levelling from the high spot. In a long run I guess it is possible that we are talking more than 1/2" that a shoe mold would handle.

In the end, always floor first. It looks nicer. Kinda the same as undercutting the door jambs for tile. It looks much more professional, and the added bonus is that the install of both cabs and floor is faster that way.

**Leo G** · 05-14-2009, 08:37 PM

Can't put shoe molding on these cabs

Cache · 05-14-2009, 08:42 PM

Most of mine are like that actually, some with furniture feet. Scribes for those of course.

**Teetorbilt** · 05-14-2009, 09:14 PM

Floor first.

A kitchen is going to be wet from spills, etc. At some point something major is going to happen (faucet/connection/valve, drain, icemaker, dishwasher, InstaHot....).

If the cabs are below floor level they will be sitting in a well of water that cannot be reached. Even solid hardwood cabs are going to swell under this condition and particleboard is completely gone.

Floordude · 05-14-2009, 09:52 PM

Had an inspection of a buckled wood floor. The cabinets were set on the wood floor.

One of a kind stone slab tops.

Broke the tops on two counters across from each other, and the center island, and jacking the custom cabinets, where they were firewood.

Couple of hundred floor repair, turned into a $50,000 mistake.

JonM · 05-15-2009, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loneframer

What if you want to keep the floor and change the cabinet layout?

Your wife will make you change the floor also...

ian@prosource · 05-15-2009, 09:50 AM

from a flooring view point i would put the floor down first, if i was a kitchen fitter i would say put the cabs in first,

However i have seen jobs with cabs in first and then they have problems getting dishwashers in under the worktop due to the step that is caused by the height of the floor finished at the foot of the cabs, also i have seen jobs where the cabs & machines where in first and once the floor was fitted the machines could not be pulled out without taking the worktop off,

'what comes first, the chicken or the egg'

**ChrWright** · 05-15-2009, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ian@prosource

from a flooring view point i would put the floor down first, if i was a kitchen fitter i would say put the cabs in first,

However i have seen jobs with cabs in first and then they have problems getting dishwashers in under the worktop due to the step that is caused by the height of the floor finished at the foot of the cabs, also i have seen jobs where the cabs & machines where in first and once the floor was fitted the machines could not be pulled out without taking the worktop off,

'what comes first, the chicken or the egg'

What you describe is just bad planning. If the cabinets go in first--you cleat and level them to the height of the finished floor and run your flooring under the appliances.

A poor craftsman is going to make a soup sandwich of it either way.

ian@prosource · 05-15-2009, 04:53 PM

as i said, i have seen jobs like this, not done them myself,

The temp rental i am in at the moment has laminate fitted, we tried to pull the dishwaher out to get to the supply behind, could not tilt it back enough to get the machine out over the edge of the laminate,

my guess is they got what they paid for when it was installed, doh

**loneframer** · 05-15-2009, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonM

Your wife will make you change the floor also...

That's when you keep the floor and the cabinets and dispose of the wife.

mrwoodman · 05-21-2009, 09:24 PM

A lot of good replies on this issue other than the tile guy

and the plywood under the cabs. Doing the plywood only increases the odds of "NO EXPANSION" if installing the woodfloor to close and I have some other issues with that too. There's my 2cents.

Ron T

user3321 · 05-27-2009, 07:50 PM

Flooring first always. If the customer ever decides to change the layout of the kitchen, they won't have to change the flooring if they don't want to.

BKM Resilient · 05-28-2009, 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leo G

There is no such thing as a flat true floor. Never has been and never will. Well, maybe in an experimental lab, but in a residence - ain't gonna happen. You need to deal with the flow and shim and/or scribe your cabinetry according to the cards you were dealt.

****************************************
My grandfather's home was I-beam construction. State of the art in the Pittsburgh area when that was still one of the world's booming economies. You never saw floors, doors and windows so flat, level and plumb in your life. The foundation work is awesome and the total square footage is well over 5000 square feet but that includes a large 1/2 unfinished basement. The local builder built the home for his own family with a custom designer----- all the best materials using all his top men . The house is well over 50 years old and every door and window open and close perfectly true as if the work were just completed yesterday.

IT CAN BE DONE!!!!!

**Leo G** · 05-28-2009, 07:45 AM

There is no such thing as a flat, true floor, no sheetrock wall is perfectly flat. Real close with strict attention and steel studs, sure. Perfect, nope.

So when the cabinetry was put in the house, not one shim was used?

skymaster · 05-28-2009, 10:28 AM

floor,floor floor; If not then you will have a nightmare with the dishwasher and any other under the counter appliances.

**Floorwizard** · 05-28-2009, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Flooring first always. If the customer ever decides to change the layout of the kitchen, they won't have to change the flooring if they don't want to.

there are plenty of good reasons to install floor first.
this is not one of them.