Floor Manufacture Mania

 
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Old 02-14-2009, 01:01 PM   #1
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Floor Manufacture Mania


We've recently started doing installations for a local hardwood floor manufacture and every project has been a soap opera

Last install has been by far the worst... the manufacture had already quoted the client the installation rate BEFORE any of us ever attended the site The only thing that I was told is square footage and the client did not want a stain, finish only.... sounded simple enough.

I attended the site a few days before installation was due to begin and discovered it was radiant heated flooring, which was not operational and put the project 3 weeks behind waiting for the system to be activated to dry the concrete. AND their was tile being installed, which set the level of the floor and now subfloor could not be layed, we'd have to glue.

3 weeks later, I'm doing the installation and SO close to finally having all the hardwood glued down, when I realize the manufacture hasn't supplied enough product they're almost 100 sq ft short and it puts the project behind another few days waiting for the product.

THEN the GC arrives with all the supplies, which includes stain... now I've gotta paint, wipe and sand an extra coat not to mention the fact that is stain is ugly as sin, too damn dark and makes the whole floor look like cheap laminate! Another great surprise is the GC bought the finish and now I'm working with Varathane and it took 12 hours per coat to dry.

This floor manufacture has more installations that they wanna throw in our direction, but I'm skeptical. They keep setting the rates with the clients w/o looking at the site. With this last installation I'd increased the rate to make up for the extra coat of stain, but it took us double the time to install with a glue down application and got screwed because we were commited to the rate already set by the manufacture.

GC on this project (and the last) was furious with the manufacture and understood that it really had nothing to do with me... however, it makes me look bad to be stuck in the middle of the BS. I was hopeful that we'd get in with this GC on other projects but there is no way it would happen now.
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Old 02-14-2009, 03:01 PM   #2
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Re: Floor Manufacture Mania


Sounds like a typical day at the office to me

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Old 02-14-2009, 03:21 PM   #3
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Re: Floor Manufacture Mania


I'm used of being the 'hired hand' and never had to deal with the HO, manufactures, GC, etc.. being on the front line will take some getting used of and it doesn't help that I have a low BS tolerance. I need a bigger shovel!

Is it worth having a conversation with the manufacture and telling them to back off on the prebids and let me set the rate after I check out the site. My guts says they won't listen cause they're priority is to flog the product, after than I'm wearing it.

OR plan B which really is not even logical, is to get on the jobsite AFTER manufacture has already made a verbal agreement with GC and tell them I'm charging more or I won't do the install. I'm at a loss, I like doing the installs, but I don't need to lose time and money.

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Last edited by smadax; 02-14-2009 at 03:24 PM.
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Old 02-14-2009, 03:37 PM   #4
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Re: Floor Manufacture Mania


I would not be willing to work under the conditions you describe. As a sub you set your rate if they don't want to pay it, tough. I'd let them get some one else to kiss their azz.
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Old 02-14-2009, 05:04 PM   #5
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Re: Floor Manufacture Mania


Manufacture and myself agreed on a per square foot rate for particular types of flooring that needs to be installed. In our original conversation we'd also agreed that there are additional costs that do arise, therefore it would be best to SEE THE DAMN SITE before throwing prices at the client.

But that hasn't been the case, they commited me to an install price and I'm choked, then left me hanging when the sh*t hit the fan. GC just stopped talking to the manufacture all together, then manufacture wouldn't return my calls because they'd already done their part, client paid for the product!

I feel ripped off, not only was it a gong show but the project was 45 minutes outta town. I'd made countless trips to the site, checking the humidity, checking to see if coats had dried, gathering more materials, etc...

I'm gonna have to say something to the manufacture and if the message doesn't get through I won't be installing for them anymore.
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Old 02-15-2009, 09:31 AM   #6
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Re: Floor Manufacture Mania


Who is paying you for this work????

The enduser, or the manufacturer??

I would get a contract with your price in agreement for the services it includes, for each project signed, before I got too more involved. Your life will suck if you don't. Be a businessman, not a committed slave.
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Old 02-15-2009, 09:39 AM   #7
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Re: Floor Manufacture Mania


Quote:
Originally Posted by smadax View Post
Manufacture and myself agreed on a per square foot rate for particular types of flooring that needs to be installed. In our original conversation we'd also agreed that there are additional costs that do arise, therefore it would be best to SEE THE DAMN SITE before throwing prices at the client.

But that hasn't been the case, they commited me to an install price and I'm choked, then left me hanging when the sh*t hit the fan. GC just stopped talking to the manufacture all together, then manufacture wouldn't return my calls because they'd already done their part, client paid for the product!

I feel ripped off, not only was it a gong show but the project was 45 minutes outta town. I'd made countless trips to the site, checking the humidity, checking to see if coats had dried, gathering more materials, etc...

I'm gonna have to say something to the manufacture and if the message doesn't get through I won't be installing for them anymore.
I see no reason that you have to do these jobs. Go out, look at them, determine if the price is fair, and accept or reject. After they sell these jobs to THEIR client, they have the commitment to get the job done. Unless you signed your life away to them on some ungodly unbalanced contract. After you reject a half dozen of these and they start to get a lot of complaints one of two things is going to happen. Either they are going to start to raise you amount or they are going to not use you. Either way it's good. You don't need the job if you aren't going to make any money off of it. Or they are going to increase the sq footage price and you will start to work for some worthwhile money.
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Old 02-15-2009, 12:01 PM   #8
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Re: Floor Manufacture Mania


Quote:
Originally Posted by Floordude View Post
Who is paying you for this work????

The enduser, or the manufacturer??

I would get a contract with your price in agreement for the services it includes, for each project signed, before I got too more involved. Your life will suck if you don't. Be a businessman, not a committed slave.
The verbal understanding was the manufacture would refer clients to us for installations and they would contact us directly. This of course is not working because the manufacture was giving the client a installation price before we ever got to speak to the client. In one particular installation the client insisted that we give an installation price over the phone and wouldn't let us see the site unless our price matched what they were quoted by the manufacture.

In this last installation, the manufacture had quoted the client on everything and we did not speak to the GC until we attended the site just before installation and discovered everything we were told about the project was wrong! I have never glued a wood floor before, this was a new experience for me and I'm glad I did it, however I had no idea it would take twice as long.

After I finished the floor and sent the invoice the GC called and said they want a third coat of finish on the floor, which he SAYS was part of the quote by the manufacture. Another day of work, another waste of time without pay!!

Quote:
I see no reason that you have to do these jobs. Go out, look at them, determine if the price is fair, and accept or reject. After they sell these jobs to THEIR client, they have the commitment to get the job done. Unless you signed your life away to them on some ungodly unbalanced contract.
Your right, I've gotta get a floor installation contract drafted and the next time I walk onto a site I won't take work that hasn't been quoted properly. Hopefully they will grab a clue, because I enjoy doing installations and it does have the potential of being a good income.
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Old 02-18-2009, 10:10 AM   #9
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Re: Floor Manufacture Mania


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Originally Posted by smadax View Post
THEN the GC arrives with all the supplies, which includes stain... now I've gotta paint, wipe and sand an extra coat not to mention the fact that is stain is ugly as sin, too damn dark and makes the whole floor look like cheap laminate! Another great surprise is the GC bought the finish and now I'm working with Varathane and it took 12 hours per coat to dry.

This floor is the gift that keeps on giving. I put on the third coat of finish, which was requested by the GC, with the product selected by the GC and when I checked on it the floor looked great, except...

The Varathane is gonna peel, because there are small air pockets over all the gaps and divits in this strand floor. GC and HO haven't said anything yet, but they will... what can I do? If they want me to sand it all down and start again I'm gonna be cheesed cause I didn't pick this Varathane.
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Old 02-18-2009, 03:28 PM   #10
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Re: Floor Manufacture Mania


Yipes! how did you get this job? You need to speak up before you do these extras. An extra coat costs this much etc. But really why is the Munufacturer even quoting installation prices? They should supply the product at whatever they want and refer you for the installs at your price. And how is the GC in the middle of this anyway? Tell them if they set your price that you are their employee and want vacation and health care,too.

go have a nice talk.

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Old 02-18-2009, 04:23 PM   #11
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Re: Floor Manufacture Mania


How right you are. According to the IRS, as soon as they set the price of labor, you become an employee. Theyt have to pay your taxes, workman;s comp, etc. http://www.irs.ustreas.gov/pub/irs-r...rstext.prn.pdf
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Old 10-17-2010, 03:59 PM   #12
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Re: Floor Manufacture Mania


Sounds to me your agreement was for one thing and they changed the scope of work (intentionally or accidentally) in eny event it was not what you agreed to.

100 ft short? this is what i call a self inflicted injury. Double check the measurements! They also shorted you on your install rate by not measuring correctly or adding a waste factor both of which were part of the per ft install rate.

Go back to them and talk through your situation. I have found most of the commercial jobs I've done to be reasonable. I don't usually get any adjustment on the bid work, but they will take care of me with one of the change orders and it will work out in the end.
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Old 10-17-2010, 04:07 PM   #13
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Re: Floor Manufacture Mania


FYI, check the dates. Old thread.

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