expansion "slip" joints - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

BKA · 11-30-2007, 09:01 PM

I'm looking on some info on expansion "slip" joints. The GC wants me to bridge the joint with our Vinal w/o any fill. That has me worried. However anything I put in there is going to crack as the new slab dries. Recomendations? And I cant route it out due to the sheet metal in the slip joint.

I'm assuming some sort of epoxy not ardex though.

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Mike Costello · 12-01-2007, 07:40 AM

Holy giant expansion joint batman.

You putting down vct or sheetgoods?

Floordude · 12-01-2007, 09:07 AM

Never lost money, on a job I didn't do.

Look, your the professional and should know every aspect of your craft, like the back of your hand.

When you let a client dictate their specifications to over rule the ASTM and manufacturers specs, you need a well written(with all specifications and conclusions, just like a failure report, and be sure to put "only a temporary installation", in the wording) waiver of all liability, or load your tools and walk, as they are breeching the contract with you. Your contract will always be "to install to industry standards". When they want to walk around industry standards, to make something more pleasing to the eye, a breech of contract is about to happen, if you let it. Then your on the hook!! How deep are your pockets, to take the risk? You know, without risk, there are no rewards.

MattCoops · 12-01-2007, 12:03 PM

yeah, that's not an expansion joint that's more like the grand canyon

BKA · 12-01-2007, 12:27 PM

Sheet goods.

Floordude · 12-01-2007, 12:39 PM

Like I said, what do ASTM Standards for Resilent Flooring say must be done to meet the requirement?

Do you have the ASTM Standards for Resilent?
ASTM standard F 710, Practice for Preparing Concrete Floors to Receive Resilient Flooring

Q: How should expansion joints be treated?
A: Joints such as expansion joints, isolation joints, or other moving joints in concrete slabs shall not be filled with patching compound or covered with resilient flooring. Consult the resilient flooring manufacturer regarding the use of an expansion joint covering system.

These joints are designed to absorb the movement of the concrete and are normally filled with elastomeric fillers which absorb the movement of the separate pieces of concrete. If an underlayment is placed across or in these joints, the movement of the concrete will cause them to break up or will push them out of the joint. Additionally, any flooring placed across these joints will break with the movement of the concrete. Expansion joint covers, which are designed to span these joints, should be used in these areas.

neolitic · 12-01-2007, 12:50 PM

Let me guess...
your GC has an Associates degree in construction management?
Or worse yet an MBA and maybe saw a hammer once a few years ago?
Around here that is called a construction joint(a crappy one at that).
Every commercial/institutional job I've seen, there is an aluminum, brass, or steel joint cover over them.

J DoubleD FLoor · 12-01-2007, 10:49 PM

Your GC is an idiot ... run now or expect a callback later.

Wolverine-Eric · 12-01-2007, 11:07 PM

We have a product that will fill that joint without cracking...

J DoubleD FLoor · 12-01-2007, 11:11 PM

It's not the fact of filling it with something that won't crack ... geesh ... it's the fact of installing resilient flooring ontop that will fail do to the nature of an expansion gap or canyon in this instance.

Wolverine-Eric · 12-01-2007, 11:23 PM

Please help me to understand this... While I am not familiar with installing vinyl, I am familiar with installing coatings.

When we have expansion joints like this, we recommend a product called IntegraFlex 1921 which is a 2 component 100% solids flexible joint filler. It is formulated to expand and contract with the concrete and you can coat over it. Although it has good elongation, it's surface is hard so that a fat woman in stilettos won't penetrate it.

What would you expect the mode of failure to be here?

J DoubleD FLoor · 12-01-2007, 11:53 PM

The VCT or vinyl popping, ripping, tearing .... think of it this way ... you have a bridge with expansion joints .... and you fill it with a polymer that expands and contracts with it .... then you pave over the entire thing ... what do you think is going to happen to the pavement at those joints .... i don't doubt that the polymer will not fail ... but i can bet my reputation that the pavement will.

Jerry T · 12-02-2007, 06:11 AM

I was taught that joints like that have to follow/continue up and through the finished floor.

Mike Costello · 12-02-2007, 09:19 AM

[quote=Jerry T;329287]I was taught that joints like that have to follow/continue up and through the finished floor.[/QUOTE

Yep, thats what I would do. Johnsonite makes a product that covers expansion canyons like that. People dont like it but its really the only right way

BKA · 12-02-2007, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry T

I was taught that joints like that have to follow/continue up and through the finished floor.

True this is the right thing to do. This is a gym, immagine having an expansion joint going across your basketball court... not good.

I think it is GC / Architect RFI time... arg!

Mike Costello · 12-02-2007, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BKA

True this is the right thing to do. This is a gym, immagine having an expansion joint going across your basketball court... not good.

I think it is GC / Architect RFI time... arg!

Ugh, its a court? They need to provide you with a surface you can cover then. Thats way more than floor prep.Thats concrete repair.

Ive never done a gymnasium in sheet goods before. Is it rubber?

Floordude · 12-02-2007, 05:45 PM

I would show them ATSM standards, and have a very specific waiver ready for them to sign, or walk. If they refuse to sign your waiver, including the owner of the propery, not just the GC. Then run, don't walk.

PrecisionFloors · 12-02-2007, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry T

I was taught that joints like that have to follow/continue up and through the finished floor.

Same here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Floordude

I would show them ATSM standards, and have a very specific waiver ready for them to sign, or walk. If they refuse to sign your waiver, including the owner of the propery, not just the GC. Then run, don't walk.

Yep, that about covers it. If they refuse to sign a waiver now, just imagine how they will be to deal with when the floor fails later...and it will fail, its just a matter of when.

Wolverine-Eric · 12-02-2007, 10:55 PM

What kind of floor are you putting down?