estimating squeaky creaking floorboards - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

bonz · 05-26-2009, 02:05 AM

Please offer advice...

I am bidding on a job that includes silencing a squeaky attic floor in an older home (90 years old). The floor is currently carpeted with pine tongue-in-groove flooring underneath.

I am being asked to remove the carpet, silence the flooring, and prep the floor for new carpet installation.

I cannot get at the floor joists from underneath without tearing into their 2nd floor ceilings (not an option). I can drive screws into the flooring to help secure the floor slats to the joists because they plan to carpet again... But, I am concerned about the problem returning in a short period of time.

I always offer a guarantee on my work... but, I have a feeling this job has a really good chance of coming back and biting me on the a**.

Any suggestions or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Bonz

Rkeister · 05-26-2009, 07:11 AM

Before ripping out the carpet and doing anything give carpet screws a shot in the squeaky spots and see if tightening those spots reduce the sound before you go further, this way if it doesn't stop the squeaking you can proceed to fix the subfloor after the old carpet is out and before the new carpet is installed.

ian@prosource · 05-26-2009, 03:16 PM

Often the squeaking in your type of floor is caused when non ring shank nails have been used. The resin in the pine hardens where it is in contact with the nail & air. As people walk on the boards they move/slide up & down against the nail resulting in a squeak.

9 times out of ten good screws solve the problem.

stop the movement,stop the squeak.

RLKMarble · 05-28-2009, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ian@prosource

Often the squeaking in your type of floor is caused when non ring shank nails have been used. The resin in the pine hardens where it is in contact with the nail & air. As people walk on the boards they move/slide up & down against the nail resulting in a squeak.

9 times out of ten good screws solve the problem.

stop the movement,stop the squeak.

If that worried, double the screws, but screws should work like a charm

oldtiman · 05-29-2009, 12:46 AM

On jobs that are that hard to see and fix with out X ray vision. I used to separate out that portion and charge by the hour and tell the HO we would do our best but couldn’t guarantee it would work. when one Ho wanted a firm price and guarantee I listed a completed tear-out and rebuild that what was about 10 times as much as the work I actually did to fix the problem for her

TopFloor · 05-29-2009, 03:32 AM

Give your customer the short lesson about wood cells and how they are susceptible to movement caused by temperature and humidity changes- i.e. things out of your control. It sounds like a no-brainer, but a brief primer on the effects of temperature and humidity on wood at the cellular level educates the customer and fosters reasonable expectations. In this manner, you are each seeing the situation for what it is and the customer is much less likely to question your motives for not offering a no-squeak guarantee.
To assess the scope of the repair work, get down on your stomach and watch as an assistant walks casually over the flooring, back and forth the length of the room, row-by-row. At each squeak, the assistant makes an X with a marker.
Meanwhile, you are watching for any movement and marking those areas with, for example, an O. The Xs should be tallied and a price given accordingly. The Os can be tallied seperately as candidates for 'preventative' squeak repair, at an additional cost, of course.
Most often a squeaking floor is caused by the loosening of the nails holding the subfloor to the joists. I suggest finding and marking where the joists are. I would use 2" or 3" finishing nails, two per squeak, driven into the joists at opposite angles. If the squeaking is between rows, but not at a joist, be sure to drive the nails so that they go through both of the offending planks. Screws are probably just fine, but I find nailing to be faster and no-less effective.

jarvis design · 05-29-2009, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopFloor

Give your customer the short lesson about wood cells and how they are susceptible to movement caused by temperature and humidity changes- i.e. things out of your control. It sounds like a no-brainer, but a brief primer on the effects of temperature and humidity on wood at the cellular level educates the customer and fosters reasonable expectations. In this manner, you are each seeing the situation for what it is and the customer is much less likely to question your motives for not offering a no-squeak guarantee.
To assess the scope of the repair work, get down on your stomach and watch as an assistant walks casually over the flooring, back and forth the length of the room, row-by-row. At each squeak, the assistant makes an X with a marker.
Meanwhile, you are watching for any movement and marking those areas with, for example, an O. The Xs should be tallied and a price given accordingly. The Os can be tallied seperately as candidates for 'preventative' squeak repair, at an additional cost, of course.
Most often a squeaking floor is caused by the loosening of the nails holding the subfloor to the joists. I suggest finding and marking where the joists are. I would use 2" or 3" finishing nails, two per squeak, driven into the joists at opposite angles. If the squeaking is between rows, but not at a joist, be sure to drive the nails so that they go through both of the offending planks. Screws are probably just fine, but I find nailing to be faster and no-less effective.

I can't quite get your advice. You say squeeking floors are normally caused by nails, yet, you suggest to use more nails to fix the problem??

As well, depending on the geographical location of the house, the age of the house, and the time of year, your inspection process will only show problems at that specific time.

Screw down the entire floor and be done with it!!

Floordude · 05-29-2009, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jarvis design

I can't quite get your advice. You say squeeking floors are normally caused by nails, yet, you suggest to use more nails to fix the problem??

I don't like to get nailed either, I like to screw.

WarnerConstInc. · 05-29-2009, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bonz

Please offer advice...

I am bidding on a job that includes silencing a squeaky attic floor in an older home (90 years old).

I found the problem, I bet they cant afford the actual solution.

TopFloor · 05-30-2009, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jarvis design

I can't quite get your advice...

No sweat.

B.K · 05-30-2009, 11:42 AM

If your worried about a guaranty on your work, why not just bid it on tearing the whole floor up and putting down new boards, then carpet?

A little trick we do, for laying new floors, is we use a can of spray foam on the joist and put our plywood over that. Never have to worry about a squeak, gives a nice barrier between the wood and nails/screws.

On an remodel we did 2 years ago, the whole main floor squeaked like a SOB we put the screws right to her for a quick and cheap fix, a few months later we were called back because the squeaks came back. We ended up tearing the whole floor up, putting down spray foam and new plywood. Haven't had a call back sence then.

-Bill

SelfContract · 05-30-2009, 11:44 AM

Remember when everything else fails,... Glue & Screws go together.

bonz · 06-16-2009, 05:20 AM

Thanks for all the responses and suggestions. Sorry for the delay in response...

I have been busy on multiple jobs and my customer on this job has been out of town alot. So, this project is moving slower than expected.

UPDATE:

Customer was replacing the carpet no matter what... So, we offered to remove the carpet at time and material rates, then re-evaluate from there...

Removed Carpet, evaluated floor, moving to next stage...

Special thanks to TopFloor. Excellent suggestions and detail. I always try to educate my customer and convince them that, whether they use my company or someone else's to complete the job, I have helped them to better understand the problem and be more confident when deciding on a solution.

NEW QUESTION:

I noticed upon removing the carpet, some of the floorboards were floating (not secured to joists on the ends). Does this raise a flag with anyone else? I am concerned the squeaking may return in these areas quickly due to the excessive movement of the boards when stepped on past the joists...

Any Suggestions?

COMMENTS:

When it comes to fasteners, I tend to lean towards screws over nails. But, ring shank nails secure so much better than than bright nails. Makes me wonder if they may be sufficient...

Thanks again for all the comments.

Bonz

bonz · 06-26-2009, 01:06 AM

UPDATE:

2 screws thru each board at each joist position... All is quiet.

Thanks again for everyone's advise,

Bonz

TopFloor · 06-30-2009, 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bonz

UPDATE:... All is quiet....

Nice! Thanks for the update.