Anyone Have A Prefrence On Tile Saws?

Square-One

Hey there guys and gals. My current project is a basement finish here in minnesota. At this moment my pluming sub just finished the bathroom rough-in for me. The homeowner is wanting a walk-in shower with 12" x 12" slate flooring and shower surround. Up til now in my contracting business most of my customers have gone with standard tubs and showers. Thus no need for a tile saw. Do any of you have a preference to certain brand and/or style of tile cutting saws? Maybe one saw does a few more style cuts over another etc... Also, I've looked everywhere for some type of slate bull nose with no avail. probably because slate chips so darn easy! Any suggestions to make a nice transition or revealing edge along the shower wall.

R&D Tile

All depends on how much tile you plan on cutting in the future and how big your wallet is, almost all saws will cut 12" tile, you get what you pay for, Target & Felker are the best in IMHO.

Now let's address what else you have said, there is no bullnose slate and slate is a poor choice in a shower, unless good quality and sealed very well, are you talking about a tiled floor in the shower?, if so, unless you have installed 12" tile on a sloped shower floor in the past, don't start now and that would be the worst place for the slate anyway.

Have you ever built a tiled shower floor base?, seeing you don't have a wet saw, sounds like you haven't, I would look into a little history on what needs to be done there first.

Bud Cline

I have six wetsaws and for the money I like the Diamond K 770. ($450.00) It's a 7" saw but the head easily raises and tilts for plunge cuts and angle cuts and it will handle 12" tiles. Diagonal cuts with 12" tile require some extra effort.

I have had three of the 770's and they get more all-around use than my other saws because they are lightweight and easy to handle from job to job.

As far as tile showers go........
The are many ways to do them wrong and only a couple of ways to do them right but they do require some specific techniques if they are going to last.

I would agree that slate isn't the best choice for a shower because slate has the ability to shed-layers over time and with the repeated temperature and moisture changes in a shower this shedding is more or less gauranteed. Sealing helps but sealing is also an ongoing maintenance issue with slate in a wet area, once you start it you must maintain it.

Square-One

Thanks for a little input here guys. The homeowner is dead set on slate tile in the whole bathroom. I have laid ceramic tile shower flooring before using a membrane, adj. drain, caulking inside corners, etc.. As for sealing the slate since it WILL be what they want and have purchased, any ideas on a sealer I can apply. Hopefully you can recommend something covering the whole tile and floor. I don't want to seal the grout only. I would just assume seal everything, and let the customer know this is what has to be done using slate, as well as additional sealing will need to be performed each year by the homeowner. What do you think???
Thanks in advance!!!!

Mike Finley

I use Custom Building Products sealers, they have a gloss and a matte finish I believe. I have only used the gloss which deepens the slates colors and makes them quite dramatic. But I don't think you would want to use the gloss on a floor, it would be pretty damn slippery, especially in a bathroom where it could get wet.

Square-One

Forget to add a few of these in the last posting.

R&D Tile

What membrane?, you install a liner, unless your using the Kerdi system, are you talking about a building a shower pan?

And how do you plan on using 12" tile on that sloped floor, you installed a pre-slope, yes?

Have you tested this slate?, placed it in a pail of water and see if it turns to mud in a few days, or starts to anyway?

Bud Cline

Square-One,

Listen close my friend cause no one here wants you to shoot yourself in the foot on this thing.

You should know (if you don't and it doesn't seem you do) that the slate will ABSOLUTELY have to be sealed, and I'm talkin' about BEFORE you attempt to grout it. You will need about three coats of sealer and even then, cleaning the grout is going to be a full-blown bitch, I hope you have money in there for all the extra work and sealer. After the grout has cured the slate should be sealed again, all of it. This will help to final-clean the smear and haze. The sealer at Home Depot works great but don't try to shorten-up.

Also, this shower thing is beginning to worry me and I think RD sees the same thing. Shall we talk about the shower?

Mike Finley

Basically the ideal saw for me is the lightest one can cut a diagonal in the tile I work with most frequently. A tilting head for 45's is a bonus.

Bud Cline

I think Mike is trying to get us back on topic for some reason. I hate it when that happens!

The truth is........
Square-One seems to have hi-jacked his own thread by changing subjects.

OK Square-One it's your thread, which way you gonna take it?

Square-One

Really, I don't understand what your trying to say B.C.. And R&D I believe you mean well. In your own way are trying to tell me to get heck out of doing tile work? Well heres the thing, the customer wants slate tile! No I'm not a professional tile installer! I have installed tile before, but never worked with slate. That being said, I'm posting the questions here to try and get Good feedback on specific skill areas that I know a bit about, but still could use adivce it perfecting my own skills. I would really appriciate advice pertaining to help with my questions, and not the "you don't know what you doing" kind of response. Sorry in-advance for ranting. I'm still in my first year of operating my licensed/insured contracting business. Just looking to preform quality work, perfect different trade skills, and try to learn something new everyday, and not be to proud to ask QUESTIONS?

Eager for feedback! Thanks

R&D Tile

That's why I'm asking you all this, to HELP, you still haven't answered if you plan on tiling a shower floor base, I keep asking because it sounds like that's what is planned here, is it?, If so and you have never done one, you should find out now before you get in over your head, it can be a very costly failure if not done correctly, now, do you want to know how to proceed with this? and the fact that you said you have never worked with slate and stated the plumber has already roughed in the shower tells me you could be in trouble, what type of drain did he install, if any yet, there are only a couple of ways this should be done, like I said , if this is the first time you've attempted this, don't wing it on your own without help.

Mike Finley

Never be afraid to say no to a customers whim based upon your experiences.

Bud Cline

Quite the opposite S-O, quite the opposite.

Here's the thing....
Sometimes an experienced installer can tell how much experience a person has simply by the questions he asks and the manner in which the questions are asked.

It's always wise to try to lead a customer through a project if that customer has no idea about the potential pitfalls of his desires. It doesn't hurt to recommend something different if you know that what he is wanting to do won't work or if there may be another or better way to do things. If the customer then decides to charge-ahead and not take your recommendations and advice then so be it.

When the guy actually doing the work and the guy that is ultimately responsible for the success of the project doesn't know what he's doing any better than the customer then the outcome could be a disaster.

Don't be so damned defensive, I already said earlier: "No one wants to see you shoot yourself in the foot."

Your turn!

Mike Finley

Not to mention the liablity and the damage to your reputation.


I would also add the option should hopefully exist for you to walk away from the job.

Bud Cline

Any job worth doing is worth doing only once. It isn't in the cards economically to have to do a job over because of lack of knowledge.

A person has to first recognize his limitations and work within those limitations for a while. You naturally expand your horizons as time goes on.

I am self taught. I've been in the trades for thirty years and have done almost everything in light construction. I've had the good fortune to be successful at what I've done but this satisfaction hasn't come to me by being in a hurry or being stupid. This isn't to say I haven't done my share of dumb crap......and still do.

I have had many opportunities to stand back and learn from those that have gone before me, and in my opinion this is always the best way to learn.

Of all the trades, ceramic and stone tile offers the best opportunity for one to fail. Tile is unforgiving and costly to repair. Tile is an area that even though everybody and his dog is doing it it requires some knowledge and usually requires a critical path method to have lasting results.

I gotta get to work, hell I can't sit here and do this again today.

Square-One

In advance, I thank you all for taking your Personal time in responding to my postings.

Yes the plumber has roughed in the sink, toilet, and walk-in shower. The shower drain is an adjustable height drain. No, I have yet to mix up and pour a pre-slope bed in the shower. My plan would be after I did pour (being sure to keep weep holes clear) would be to lay down pvc or cpe liner. Any suggestions as to which liner might work best for me? Would bringing the liner 6" up the walls be sufficient? Next, pour the bed (will it be necessary to wire mesh the bed, as the original flooring is concrete)? Now, the slate is a gauged slate. I have yet to test to see how pourus it is. I need to clean them all off, so I will find out how resistive the stuff is. After I've tiled the shower walls and laid down the floor tile should I seal twice or three times before grouting. Then seal again? That would seem to be the best couse of action. At what time in the process should I be caulking my inside corners? Should the base of the shower wall meeting the shower floor also be caulked or grouted?

Lot's of ?'s--Hopefully, with your guys feedback/coaching this knowledge will take me a long way in tiling projects.

Bud Cline

First thing is I don't like to use the term "pour" as it relates to shower floors. The mix that you use is "placed" not poured. This is because the mix is 4:1 sand to portland and mixed very very very dry. So dry that you can pick up a handfull and squeeze it into a dry clump without it squiahing and oozing.

The mix is then placed into its fianal-resting-place and packed tightly with a mag float or wood float. This is done so that the surface can then be "shaved" NOT TROWELLED shaved to create the desired slope.

The same goes for the top floor cast when the time comes.

The shower pan liner (whichever you choose) is to be placed in one piece and should rise up the walls not less than three inches above the top of the curb. For your first time around I would use the 30 mill liner stay away from the 40 mil type.

There's a lot more to this but I'll hold-up for now. You need to know about 'lattice' and 'dogears' and 'reinforcing' and 'gravel' and 'fastener placement' and 'strainer elevation', etc, etc.

R&D Tile

And pre-slopes.

Take a look at this site, it will give you an idea of how it's done.

http://www.ontariotile.com/preslope.html

Mike Finley

Bud and R&D wondering in your neck of the woods what a mud job base would go for. Say a 34x48, about 12 square feet. Drain set, but left un-tiled? These things are impossible to figure I know, but let's just say it's a perfect scenario.

PS: If I hired a sub to do this, what would be a couple of questions to eliminate the posers from the craftsmen?