ADVICE NEEDED- From the hardwood pros - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

Heritage · 11-01-2009, 10:14 PM

Hey guys, I'm kinda torn on how to deal with a small issue that I'm having after we installed new hardwood flooring for a client as part of a reno.

I was at the house today and the HO's showed up. The wife HO said she doesn't like the flooring.

I asked why, and she said she sees nail marks.

I already explained to her that as we get to the final few rows we face nail the floors then fill it in, she will hardly know...that we're not finished yet and work is still going on and they're kinda walking in mid-point.

She then pointed out a dent that MAY be a factory defect (like that when we opened the box) or MAY be one of our guys dropping something on the floor. It's about 14 rows back from the end in a 12'-14' wide room.

On the spot...I told them, If they really don't like it I can take it out...they said..."Please do".

They were nice enough about it.

Now here's my only qualm...do I have to eat this up? How do you guys normally deal with this? In the end it's probably our fault, but...there's gotta be some lenience...I don't know either ways...you guys straighten me out.

tomstruble · 11-01-2009, 10:25 PM

why would they want a dent in their new floor?i don't get it
why install a damaged peice of flooring?
who do you think should pay for it?

Heritage · 11-01-2009, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomstruble

why would they want a dent in their new floor?i don't get it
why install a damaged peice of flooring?
who do you think should pay for it?

To your first question...they don't want the dent...that was kinda the whole point

Second question...Although it sounds all nice in theory to inspect every piece of floor (this is over 1000 sq/ft of 3 1/4" Jatoba) sometimes you don't catch every defect before you pop it in...you don't always catch the right light. Although that's just half of the equation, that plank could have been fine going in...maybe one our guys dropped something onto the floor, or the HO's, or the HO's painter...who knows. Kinda the point...but not really...I have to deal with it one way or another.

Third question...Well that's really my question. I'm willing to eat it and cut my losses, after all...they deserve the best final product. BUT...I'm really asking in the hardwood floor profession, amongst the guys that install this stuff all the time...I'm sure this happens from time to time, how do you guys handle it?

Would you always rip out 14 rows?
Do you try to swell it up and fill it?
Would you charge the HO (if not full, half)?

What's the BEST frikkin solution here?

TRUST me, I've been bugging with this all day, if I could have made up my mind about this I already would have. I just want some well intentioned, good hearted feedback from some fellow industry guys. I think I'm pms'ing today.

tomstruble · 11-01-2009, 11:44 PM

me? i would do one of the first two not the third unless i saw them do the damage,even then i would probably suck it up. jmo

i know you wanted hardwood pro's to respond and i am NOT one but is there a repair to replace a piece without pulling the whole floor?

mikeswoods · 11-02-2009, 06:18 AM

Bad spot there.

Two possible solutions.

Hire a furniture repair man from the nicest high end store you know-A top guy is a magician with a shellac stick.

If you have a plank of exactly the same size-Cut the center of the bad plank out with a skill saw.
Chisel away the shell that remains.
Remove the bottom of the groove --then glue in the piece.

I haven't done hardwood in years,however that is a common practice.--MIKE--

Cdat · 11-02-2009, 07:15 AM

It is your fault, fix it. Oh, I'd try to swell it 1st but most likely, you'll have to cut it out and replace it.

the big 12 inch · 11-02-2009, 07:30 AM

Another CLASSIC example of why I don't do prefinished floors much..You should of filled those top nail holes asap(know your customer)..Get someone really good to take out that dented board and replace it.One small dent in a 1000 ft job is pretty pickey but ya can't argue with the H/O if they see it...I could go on... but I gotta go to work!!Good luck..

Heritage · 11-02-2009, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the big 12 inch

Another CLASSIC example of why I don't do prefinished floors much..You should of filled those top nail holes asap(know your customer)..Get someone really good to take out that dented board and replace it.One small dent in a 1000 ft job is pretty pickey but ya can't argue with the H/O if they see it...I could go on... but I gotta go to work!!Good luck..

Thanks for that...I should have filled the nail holes, especially after she mentioned them the first time which led to my explanation days ago before she got amnesia.

I'll go for the advice on replacing that single board, worst case scenario if I screw up really badly my next option was to rip out 14 rows anyways...oh and that last cut to the wall (3/4" ripped to 0") over 8' span was fun!!!

THANKS guys who framed that room

Chalk it up...experience...live and learn. Thanks again folkers!

finaltouchfloor · 11-02-2009, 10:08 PM

I would not have top nailed the first few rows. We measure off an exterior wall , pop a caulk line. Then we screw a straight 1x4 to the subfloor with tapcons on concrete . Thats our starting point, it keeps the floor straight though an entire house.

Floordude · 11-03-2009, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by finaltouchfloor

I would not have top nailed the first few rows. We measure off an exterior wall , pop a caulk line. Then we screw a straight 1x4 to the subfloor with tapcons on concrete . Thats our starting point, it keeps the floor straight though an entire house.

Board replacement. That is why the floor is the very last thing done in a remodel. It will cost you every time!

I do not top nail into prefinished where it will be seen, when the trim moldings are in place. I use urethane glue on the last rows near the finishing wall.

floorme! · 11-03-2009, 10:20 AM

I don't have one but they look like they will do the trick:

fein multimaster

grahaminteriors · 11-03-2009, 04:54 PM

Why are you talking about replacing 14 runs? Take out the one board, which you have to do without damaging one of the others. You can cut the middle out with a saw or router, it can be mean but shouldn't be THAT bad.

Then try to get another board the same size, cut the bottom off the "groove" side, and drop it in. If there isn't another board the same size you have to cut the end so you lose a factory edge, but it should be all right unless you have a beveled end on the boards. Glue it down once you are sure the fit is right.

However, sometimes the fix is worse than what you already have. Try the furniture guy someone suggested.

If this is on an install then I expect the crew to do it at their cost if they missed it or caused it and it came up on the punch list. If it is your crew then you eat the cost. For one board, if you are already on the job, one of two guys ought to be able to do it in 30 to 60 minutes, unless you damage a board next to it. In which case you get to replace it, too. Good luck.

mikeswoods · 11-15-2009, 06:23 PM

Update ??

crovello · 11-15-2009, 06:57 PM

I would never ask a home owner to accept a damaged floor. They paid for a new floor and that is what they expect. If it means I loose money on the job then so be it. Although if I didn't have enough profit to eat a one or two hour repair then my estimating sucks.

I think once you are done with the repair you will say, "that wasn't so hard"

My men used to call me over to look at something that didn't come out right and ask if they should rip it out and do it again. They don't ask any more. I am the guy doing the walk through with the architect and owner and I HATE having sub standard work pointed out to me.

Dave

PrecisionFloors · 11-15-2009, 07:10 PM

You can't consider yourself a hardwood flooring professional if you do not know how to replace a plank anywhere in the floor....one row in or twenty. Here's your opportunity to learn. Unfortunately YOU are responsible for the floor. If your guys installed a damaged piece, then you get to replace it. If they dropped a tool, same deal. Did you cover the floor after the installation was complete, or let the h.o. know that any damage by other trades was now their responsibility? Again, another opportunity to learn. A plank replacement like that would take me less than thirty minutes....hardly enough time to call my reputation into question with anyone that customer might talk to in the future. Just food for thought.

TopFloor · 11-16-2009, 03:52 AM

So, did you replace the single plank?

stacker · 11-16-2009, 01:48 PM

this is kind of on the subject of needing advice.im not a flooring man but a mason contractor.i am remodeling a house for myself.when i took up the carpet yesterday,the hardwood floors beneath it are in very good shape.my problem is the pad is sticking to the hardwood.i am using a sheetrock knife to scrap it,but it is a long process.it also is only thing that doesnt seem to scratch the floor.
someone told me to use some water to loosen the pad.any advice?

mikeswoods · 11-16-2009, 06:28 PM

Water and oak do not mix. Oak turns black if if gets wet. Might work if the finish is good and you wipe it dry quickly.
Experiment with a mild non-water based solvent.

Renting a floor buffer with a screen or a scrub pad might be worth it if the room is large enough.--MIKE--

By the way---I am not a floor pro either--There are some here that may know a better solution.

robin303 · 11-18-2009, 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeswoods

Bad spot there.

Two possible solutions.

Hire a furniture repair man from the nicest high end store you know-A top guy is a magician with a shellac stick.

If you have a plank of exactly the same size-Cut the center of the bad plank out with a skill saw.
Chisel away the shell that remains.
Remove the bottom of the groove --then glue in the piece.

I haven't done hardwood in years,however that is a common practice.--MIKE--

Bingo.
Also just suck it up and just do it for free. It’s called references. Also I put down cardboard to protect it when your finished. Look at all the trades that still have to come there and they or most don’t give a dang.

grahaminteriors · 11-18-2009, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stacker

this is kind of on the subject of needing advice.im not a flooring man but a mason contractor.i am remodeling a house for myself.when i took up the carpet yesterday,the hardwood floors beneath it are in very good shape.my problem is the pad is sticking to the hardwood.i am using a sheetrock knife to scrap it,but it is a long process.it also is only thing that doesnt seem to scratch the floor.
someone told me to use some water to loosen the pad.any advice?

Other guys who do this day in and day out might have other suggestions. I would recommend AGAINST water, as stated above. You can get a scrapper with blades at most flooring supply stores, but you run the risk of nicking the wood - those blades are sharp. A drywall knife is probably a pretty good tool for this, but if you are having a LOT of trouble, and the wood looks black even after you get the pad up, I'd call a local guy who sands and finishes.

If you have black spots staining the floor that means it has literally soaked into the wood. If it isn't too deep sanding can get it out. If they are really bad you may have some residual spots even after sanding. If you don't want to pay someone use a hand sander in a closet or someplace where the pad has stuck and try a spot yourself. If it comes off okay consider renting a floor sander and refinishing them yourself. Usually, you can't get a good enough rental unit for a top end job, but if it is your house and you are on a tight budget it can be worth a try.

The sanding is a pain, applying poly isn't too bad. You will need to buy an attachement for the end of a pole that you fasten a sheepskin to and a pan to pour the poly into - relatively cheap for the result if you do the labor yourself. If you sand, plan on replacing all the quarter round, too. And that means painting or staining it as well as installing. Plus cleaning the house. Cover up your ducts, turn off the heat and air so you don't pull dust through the house. And you will probably need to rent an edging sander as well as the floor sander. Sometimes the wood has to have a coat of stuff to prep it with, depending on the wood and what brand you are using of stain or poly. I recommend satin finish, though high gloss is pretty it is tougher to get good results and to live with. If you do all this yourself you will learn why it cost what it does. Probably the same with masonary! If you decide to sand yourself I'm sure lots of guys on here can give you step by step instructions. Best of luck!