Advice

DaveK

Hey guys:

I am looking for some advice and was hoping to get some feedback from the tradesmen on this board.

I am 19 years old and am currently in college..I am doing well and my major i accounting.

When I was 13 my father opened a small flooring retail store and I always helped him out doing deliveries, setting up displays, and when I got older about 16 I started selling alittle bit. I know alot of contractors and have done flooring jobs with them such as carpet, tile, wood, laminate...I wouldnt say I could professionaly handle any of these jobs myself right now but thats not really a big concern.

During my spring break this year I am going to attend "Mohawk University" and hopefully learn how to install carpet,laminate, hardwood professionaly..I will wait to learn how to do tile later because it is much harder and I think learning all these skills will just cause confusion.

So this is where I need advice..I am not in anyway considering dropping out of college..I am on track to get my bachelors degree in accounting and thats all good.

Still I am not sure I really want to be an accountant..I interned last summer and found it well sitting on your ass all day was not as great as I thought.

My father doesn't do installations and his store has never made a dime off of installations. We have contractors that we are in good relations with and we simply refer our clients to them.

What I think is that with the proper training and experience...I am talking 3-4 years down the road here...I could probably get a crew together..or even find 7-8 good subcontractors and take on the responsibility of these installation jobs. My father had told me that I can make good money with it but I would have to learn how to do the jobs I am planning to take on...carpet, tile, laminate, hardwood...and complete bathroom remodelings so even if I do hire a subcontractor to do the work..which is the most reallistic thing to do as we generally sell about 20 jobs a month and it would be impossible for me and a crew to do all of that.

I figure if I learn how to do all these things professionaly by taken classes over at mohawk and than busting my ass with some good contractors I know that after about 4 years (after college) I would have a nice little business...Sell the product and have my guys install them...I would do the estimates, make sure all of the materials are there on time, make sure the subcontractor knows what he has to do, handle all the paperwork, and if needed finish the job myself hence the importance of actually knowing whats going on.

Anyway I was just hoping from some feedback from you guys..I think I can make a decent living doing this and it might be a better fit for me than sitting in a cubicle all day long..although I am sure my accounting knowledge will be a great asset for me.

I figure it is worth a try..if it doesnt work out..NYC is a bus ride away.

Bud Cline

The only thing I know very much about is ceramic and stone tile and I can tell you there is a lot to be learned. A good place to begin would be at the Ceramic Tile Education Foundation (CTEF) in South Carolina. Classes are held regularly and the CTEF is supported by the Tile Council of North America (formerly the TCA).

Check it out when the time comes. Any questions you may have can be directed to Dave Gobis Executive Director: dave@tileschool.org

CTEF: www.tileschool.org




The TCNA offers publications outlining proper tile installation methods and practices (Handbook for Ceramic Tile Installations), go to their website and click on "publications" for further information. You can also purchase the publications relating to ceramic tile offered by ANSI (American National Standards Institute) at their website.


TCNA: www.tileusa.com


GOOD LUCK and HAPPY FLOORING.

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R&D Tile

Where are you located, where is this store also?

DaveK

Bud Cline: Thanks for the links..I have visited them and was quickly humbled with all the information there is to know about tile and installation. I bet installing granite/marble/ and stone must be even more intense than ceramic tile. Thanks again.

Dear R&D Tile: I am in Jersey..Monmouth county. Our showroom is located in Manalapan, NJ. I say showroom and not store because we aren't on a major road and dont have any walk in clients. Our business is 100% referall. Also we dont have a traditional storefront..keeps the overhead at a minimum and since I am over at Rutgers atleast 5 days a week we have no need to expand.

Grainywood

There is a big floor contracting company out here in northern california called Campbells Carpets which was started by a group of installers way back when. Now they are one of the biggest outfits around when it comes to supplying flooring for developers and track homes. A few of them had only learned it at school and never actually done installation. Of course the group had those who had actually done it too.

Take the classes they offer at NWFA for hardwood. They are short but highly informative and you can repeat them year after year if need be since you can't get everything out of it in one shot.

IMO, take the time to learn the trade by doing. It isn't like going to college and cramming for an exam. The information often will come in trickles, and many times it's by big mistakes you learn your best lessons. After college you should work with a good contractor, offer him job costing and accounting skills as well as apprenticing in flooring. Four years is kind of short to me. I've been doing wood since I was 16 (now 33), not that it takes that long but I tried to hire a guy who has done flooring for 13 years and he's a complete knucklehead.

But with your accounting skills and your experience in your father's shop, you're well on your way. With installation experience, I'd start now rather then after college. Do it part time.

__________________
"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination."

mahlere

do you only sell to the public? or also too alot of contractors?

DaveK

Grainywood: Thanks alot for your reply. I wouldn't even consider taking on a hardwood, tile, laminte, or carpet job right now..that would be a botched job. I have worked with a few professional guys before and am in good relations with them so will go out more times with them regardless of wether I persue doing this business professionaly or not. Actually there is a guy who does windows and doors next to my fathers showroom and I am planning to go work for him alittle bit..not that I have much interest in doing windows and doors but I would like to learn how..it never hurts.

Currently I am in school full-time but I do not live in campus so I have more time to go out and work..though there is no doubt alot more experience of actually doing the work would be required by me for me to feel comftorable to take on any of these jobs myself with a few helpers...instead of me being the helper.

I had a conversation with a sales rep. from Century Flooring last week about this business and he told me to look into floor maintenance such as carpet cleaning, tile and grout cleaning, and hardwood resurfacing...the new bona machine looks pretty amazing for that.

I am considering maintenance aswell maybe even over installation because in my opinion the best business to run is one with multiple crews and a system. Usually installing is difficult to build a system because as you stated, you may be a professional and great at it, but the guys who hire are alot of times knuckleheads and would screw up the job. I figure professional carpet cleaning and tile and grout cleaning would be alot easier to get a small crew together a few trucks and go. Even though I can see the next 5 years of my life already..."Me a helper, a van, and cleaning carpet and tile 7 days a week"

Also as I have stated I know alot of flooring guys as we do business with alot of them. I figure that if I go into installing some of them would teach me but I dont see anyone really helping be as I would be "stepping on their toes" but with the maintenance they would be more than happy to refer me to their clients. Anyway I am not sure exactly what I will persue right now.

I am currently going to school, working on my free time, and doing as much research as I can. So any advice is always appreciated as I am pretty confused right now.

Mahelere:

I would have to say that about 80% of the costumers we get right now come directly from contractors or are the contractors themselves. We are always happy to give out free samples to contractors and if they have an order we sell it to them and than they go ahead and mark it up and sell it to their clients. Still alot of contractors find it much easier just to send their clients to us directly. We are a "private showroom" because well you would have to be looking for us to find us..no walk in clients here. At this point we get retail clients also because of people simply referring their friends or neighbors to us..in which case we go ahead and refer a contractor that we are confident will do a good job for them for the installation.

DaveK

Sorry I ment refinishing..couldnt remember the word lol

Grainywood

Refinishing. That is in itself an art. The maintenance thing sounds a bit easier but remember, if you or your crew botches say a maintenance coat on a hardwood floor; you may have to sand and refinish or worse, replace it.

In hardwood, installation and refinishing go hand in hand. I've never really heard of people going to a maintenance company for hardwood maintenance. Hardwood guys are usually the ones to do those. Tile and carpet, vinyl is another thing.

If you are interested in a maintenance business, try Koit Cleaners. I believe they do carpet, vinyl and tile grout cleaning. And Stanley Cleaners is another chain that does maintenance business.

This is quite different from an installation business. And frankly, if you really want to start an installation division for your father's store or yourself, you don't necessarily need to do the actual installation. You should take classes, know how it's done but you can be the estimator, the business manager and let a crew do the actual work. I'd partner with a flooring contractor even and let him manage the actual work while you take care of the job costing, accounting. It can be a co owned company so you aren't just an employee. But get it all legal and spelled out.

If you are interested in this business, don't waver. Learn it and do it. Sounds to me like you have plenty of in's with this industry. Use your advantage. Think of it, you already have the supply end set up with your dad. What I would give to get supplies wholesale.

__________________
"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination."

DaveK

[quote=Grainywood;140825]Refinishing. That is in itself an art. The maintenance thing sounds a bit easier but remember, if you or your crew botches say a maintenance coat on a hardwood floor; you may have to sand and refinish or worse, replace it.

Yeah Grainywood I dont really know of any maintenance for hardwood other than actually refinishing the flooring..which would go hand in hand with hardwood installation. As far as maintenance it would only really apply to carpet, tile, vinyl and it would consist of a van, truck mount, and maybe a wand or I have seen some really nice machines called rotovacs.

Whats nice about that is the rotovac does a great job on tile and grout and there is an attachment for wall tile and grout..sounds like a nice addition for a flooring store.

But yeah you are 100% right that the way to go is to learn the business as far as installation get together a crew, make sure one guy is a real pro and do the estimates, handle the material sales and delivery, paperwork etc.

I am gonna continue working with some contractors who are willing to show me how things are done. Get in with the NWFA and take some classes and take it from there.

Thanks for your advice Grainywood

mahlere

You already answered my follow up question. I'm right in your area, most guys here get very territorial and don't take kindly to their suppliers entering 'their' end of the business. Good luck